The Wish List

Please post your wish lists for future updates and releases here.

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Tazak
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RE: The Wish List

Post by Tazak »

ORIGINAL: mb4329
Ability to assign a movement path to a reinforcing unit the turn it will arrive. It would be nice to have the units not just sit still the first impulse they arrive. They likely would have been under some sort of order before they arrived and wouldn't just show up on the battlefield and halt. Maybe something like at the end of the players turn, but before any action is undertaken, the player assigns units that are due to arrive that turn orders independent of the players command limits (if the units fail to arrive then the process would begin anew next turn). After that first impulse they would then fall under the normal C2 restrictions.

would love to see this, even if its pasue and issue 1 'order' rather than the normal 3, with command cycles changing depending on the state of the players C3 chain planning scenario reinforcements to arrive at the 'start' of a command cycle is tricky.
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mb4329
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RE: The Wish List

Post by mb4329 »

@TheWombat could point on not wanting to negatively impact the AI.

Don't know how challenging they would be to handle or not so I figured I would through them out for consideration/coversation. In some cases it appears that some of it is basically there. For example the retrograde movement issue could use the existing movement scheme of placing waypoints, but they are only triggered when a unit displaces in screening mode due to enemy proximity (as it will currently). If the player doesn't assign retrograde waypoints the AI behaves as it currently does and if there have been retrograde waypoints assigned it tries to execute them using the existing movement routine.

The second point could be more of a condition test before the AI displaces the unit.

The third may be more challenging to handle as there may be a fair bit of logic needed to make it work well, but I wouldn't put anything past the development team.

As to the fourth item and to address Tazak's point I see that reinforcement's first turn as similar to the initial setup. I think forcing a player to do assign orders at the start of the turn was my attempt at preventing the player from reacting to data they would not normally have until the turn is complete while exempting them from the command limit was based on the premise that the arriving unit had some existing order driving their appearance. Trying to balance that freebee of not burning C2 "points" with not allowing the player to get to gamey.

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CapnDarwin
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RE: The Wish List

Post by CapnDarwin »

Merrick,

Apparently the tubes ate my response from earlier. [:@]

Both points 1 and 2 are in our wish list pipeline for a future engine feature. We do want to get to having more waypoints and then being able to set the action and state of those waypoints. Move hasty here, assault to here and hold/aggressive or screen/fallback to here and screen, etc. Add a bit more detail and choice will allow for #3 to happen better by the AI. Also giving the AI a over arching battle plan will help too. Nothing we will see tomorrow, but hopefully in the 2.1 engine. The fourth point is going to be tough. The best we might be able to do is revamp the system such that any units that will appear during the upcoming command cycle get placed on the map as inactive units but allow orders to be given that will fire when the unit wakes up during the turn. And yes I would agree at no cost to limited orders and no delay when the unit wakes up.

All very good points and we just need to hit the lottery and make this our day job to get it done faster. [:D]

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC
mb4329
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RE: The Wish List

Post by mb4329 »

Sounds good Jim.

After playing a bit more it would also be nice to have the ability to specify at what range or PK a unit engages various targets. I have been finding that my IFV units (playing as NATO) engage Pact helicopters beyond a point where they have a reasonable PK (often 2000-2500m) and seemingly before they themselves are spotted (basing that on lack of WP fire prior to engagement). The end result is the WP unit identifies and engages the IFV unit often suffering no causalities and the NATO IFVs often suffer 50-75% losses. It would be nice to have the ability to assign a value, either range or PK, at which a unit (or class of units) will engage a threat. If a unit is fired on first, all bets can be off with respect engagement ranges.

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Panta_slith
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RE: The Wish List

Post by Panta_slith »

I wonder if this has been suggested before, but for us silly amateurish scenario makers it would be interesting to be able to give a random probability of appearance of the units. You could determine, for instance, a 20% chance of a tank battalion to enter at time 1005 in coordinates such and such, for instance and a 40% of another battalion to popup at 1437 in some other place. That adds a certain degree of unpredictability each time you start the scenario and increase its replayability. Steel Beasts's editor works like that and it is very useful.
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Mad Russian
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RE: The Wish List

Post by Mad Russian »

Random probability is great for playing against yourself. It is the worst tool available in the editor for play balance of scenarios you are trying to create for others if you want a calculated result.

What does that mean?

As a scenario designer I want a specific result. I want the scenario to play competitively. I don't want it to be either too easy or impossible to beat. Now, of course, that is subjective to my own personal playing skills and that is where having playtesters helps identify how a scenario plays.

If you are running a scenario with unit(s) that come in with a random time that makes a calculated result difficult if not impossible to obtain. Did that unit come in at 3 hours or 5 hours? That will make a tremendous difference as to how the scenario plays out. That's not a big deal, in fact, it's a good result if you are playing the scenario just against yourself. When others play it you will usually want more control over the outcome and that means reinforcements come in at very close to a specific time so you know when they will begin to impact game play.

Good Hunting.

MR
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Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
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Panta_slith
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RE: The Wish List

Post by Panta_slith »

Please allow me disagree a bit on that point. It is just a matter of scenario design philosophy. Perhaps the difference is that in SBP you also script the routes, therefore it makes a difference if you appear in one place than somewhere else and also the route the units take as well. To be honest, most AIs are disappointing up to a certain degree, and unless you elaborate the routes/behaviours of the units, they are forced to aim for the VPs in a more or less straight way. When you create scenarios in supposedly sophisticated games, played by civilians AND the military, like Harpoon and SBP and see how unsophisticated they are at the very end, you realize that nothing compares to the challenge of playing against one or more fellow humans. And maybe is precisely in those situations where random events may be more helpful. [:(]
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Mad Russian
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RE: The Wish List

Post by Mad Russian »

If the result you are looking for is a controlled one, such as where several people play the same scenario to see how well they do in say a tournament, or even comparing scores, a scenario with reinforcements that come in at a very wide variance are not good.

Just depends on your end goal. I've made scenarios for a multitude of games. Some with variable unit entry and some without. Where I learned to leave variable unit entry almost completely out of public scenarios was from games that had variable entry available.

Good Hunting.

MR
The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
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Panta_slith
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RE: The Wish List

Post by Panta_slith »

Possibly I do not fit in the average player profile, I suppose. Canned scenarios are not my cup of tea, except to do some sparring before playing with friends. I understand that the requirements of a professional game designer are much different, you have to sell the game to your public, and if that public demands solo scenarios of a certain kind, you have to make them or die. I hope you do well because I have already said that I find this game excellent, specially because if you are not satisfied with the scenarios, you can do your own with the very good editors that come in the package.
Personally I found the canned scenarios in most tactical/grand tactical games really disappointing, just a variation of Space Invaders, no room for subtleties like maneuver,deceiving (maskirovka) or bluffing, to name just a few. And that goes the same for TacOps, Combat Mission, Decisive action, SBP, you name it, though all those excel in multiplayer. But I understand that you need to sell as much as possible in terms to be able to continue improving the product thus you need to make more solo scenarios. It is just that I would like to have that random possibility tool, I promise not to force anyone to use it, I am not a North Korean leader! [:)]
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Hexagon
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RE: The Wish List

Post by Hexagon »

Something i dont read here... is possible add filters in the scenario selection screen??? i think in filter scens by date, size... and maybe by nations (for example if i search a scen with german troops show only them).

Thanks.
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DoubleDeuce
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RE: The Wish List

Post by DoubleDeuce »

Don't believe that this has been mentioned yet but a button to export the Tactical Ops Center Diary reporting data directly to a txt file. I know you can copy and past it into a document manually but an easier way to export it would be nice, not a must have, just a nice to have.
rmacrae
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RE: The Wish List

Post by rmacrae »

On my wish list is that the game become even more of a command simulation. There needs settings for those who want that type of experience to restrict the information flowing the to player to be no more than what a brigade commander and his staff in the 1980’s would reasonably know. More chaos, more uncertainty, less direction to manoeuver units, greater use of chain of command, less fretting over pK's, 'viewpoint' focus for the design.

The map should display the only the last known/reported location of my units i.e. this may not be where they actually are located, as well as the contacts with enemy units as communicated by my units: communicated with varying degrees of accuracy: recon- high; units with screen/hold orders- medium high; hasty move orders -low accuracy, etc modified by veteran, green, etc class.

The hex by hex crawl of my units as they execute orders is not shown on my map, e.g. If a unit is sent on a road move of 10 km, the player would not watch it snake hex by hex over the 10km of road, he would see it in its start location, could toggle to its ordered location, but may only see an updated actual location on his map if it reports its arrival at its destination; if it is destroyed en route, and it fails to get out an ‘enemy contact’ flash, the player would never know its fate.
Frequent communications with HQ (if you wanted to view a hex by hex crawl) generates EW identification for display as a possible unit location on the oppositions map and a candidate for artillery.

There needs a setting whereby I can display on my map all enemy sightings and strength estimates in the last 15/30/60 /90 /120 minutes. Now an enemy icon appears and disappears, and I have to remember where I saw it. And I should only know of contact if it is communicated up the chain of command, not the mere act of engagement. The game in essence manages three maps, one- which is not visible to the players, is where all the units of both sides are actually located,; two – player 1’s map that shows the last reported locations of his own units, with a toggle to display their orders or ordered destinations, plus the last reported locations of enemy contacts as communicated to HQ; three – players 2’s map, which is like players 1’s, mutatis mutandis .

It would be nice to have more doctrine flavour displayed by the units in their execution of orders. The West trumpets the initiative of their soldiers. This is to be implemented by units unilaterally changing their orders – and not just under the pressures of a combat result. Initiative is not just executing exactly what you are told, but faster. This feature would operate by having some Western units changing their screen orders to hold orders, or a deliberate move changed to an assault, or adding another way point to a move etc, initiative being displayed as a bias for more aggression. These order changes would not communicated to the commander (player) until the post game debrief. Units could have personality settings for its commander, thereby giving the player an estimate of who will be reckless. While the West accommodates an extremely hostile EW environment with initiative, the Soviets rely on well-practiced drills to perform battlefield evolutions with the minimum of command input. In these circumstances the Soviet order cycle should be shorter than that of the West. This could be implemented by allowing the Soviet player to give orders at each waypoint, e.g from start to waypoint 1: move hasty, to way point 2: move deliberate, to way point 3: assault. The rigidity of the drill is displayed by the formation being religiously held until the next way point is reached even if the encountered opposition warrants a stop ,or screen, or in this example, an earlier posture of move deliberate than waypoint 2. Except for their recon units, the typical Soviet unit would be slower to send intell and contact info up the chain of command. The Soviets may be faster in their formation evolutions, but would be slower than the West in integrating a 'big picture' view of the battlefield for the player (commander).

As a general interface paradigm, during the orders phase, a nice option would be to have the core of the screen present reports on units in a tabular format, with a small side window that bounces around the map to show the location of a units selected(clicked) on the report., e.g unit ID on the y-axis, measure (status, orders, morale, ammo, etc) on the x-axis. This way I can review entire battalions/regiments with one screen view . (this info would be of varying degrees of accuracy as determined by when units last reported, etc.) and other reports of enemy contacts, location, estimated strength, direction, etc.
Tazak
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RE: The Wish List

Post by Tazak »

The ability to name objectives

seems a little one but would add a flavour to mission briefing i.e. take and hold VL at grid 1234 vs. take and hold objective Bravo
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Burnsj002
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RE: The Wish List

Post by Burnsj002 »

Okie forgive me if this has been brought up before. My wish is to replay a completed game i.e. a game from start to finish. So I can study it. (currently you can only replay the last turn) --unless I'm wrong. View it as either Player one Commander or Player two Commander or both. I want to sit and eat popcorn a re-watch the game that I have either lost or won...
Also can you please, please have a pop up menu warning you that you are about to end a game... three games I accidently ended instead of saving it... ugh! Please!

Anyway peace
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RE: The Wish List

Post by Burnsj002 »

[>:]
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IronManBeta
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RE: The Wish List

Post by IronManBeta »

rmacrae - thank you for the very thoughtful post. You bring up a lot of good points and things that we have discussed many times in the past.

I was originally inspired by Simulation Canada's Main Battle Tank (MBT) game which was an 1980 text-mode game that had a design philosophy very much like what you describe. There was a lot of information hiding in the sense that you could not see the battlefield as it was right now, but only as it had been reported on at various points by various units in the past. You had to truly evaluate the reports (often fragmentary) that came in and piece them together so as to construct a mental map of what must be happening in real time. This was a deliberate design feature of that game and the SimCan developer told me that it was meant to be chaotic and confusing because that what a real command viewpoint was like. He advised me to keep the unit count low and the number of possible operations small in the new game otherwise any reasonable person would simply by overwhelmed and give up.

A lot of this thought went into the initial FPG / FPRS design but playtesting pressure gradually squeezed it out. It was just too hard to tell if the game was running correctly or not based on what the playtesters were telling me. That might sound like a stupid reason but I could not release a game I could not be sure was running even approximately correctly!

For example, I would have a reporting doctrine for friendly units. They would report in every x minutes or whenever they spotted the enemy or did certain actions. This was all configurable per unit and the Unit Description Panel would say on it when the current unit report had been received at. Frequent reports would be more accurate but much more likely to give the enemy valuable sigint info up to practically inviting an arty stonk on both parties to the conversation. (That was particularly tough on HQs trying to coordinate a lot of subordinates.) Trying to find a reasonable reporting doctrine and then to know when to change it for altered circumstances added a lot of bookkeeping to the game. People would be lazy and ignore it and so the UDP would frequently it would be out of date and inaccurate. Then I would get all kinds of bogus complaints. That whole information management game was so frustrating that I eventually had to turn it off.

This came right after I had read Chandler's Campaigns of Napoleon where he made such a point that Napoleon's superior ability to construct and track a battle in his head was one of the secrets of his genius. Trying to actually portray that though just led to a lot of frustration.

More recently we have considered units disappearing or becoming semi-transparent ghost units if they go out of command or red-line due to morale / ammo / readiness issues. We would also like to show timestamps again so that we can tell how old spotting reports are, etc.

I like your three map suggestion as that really makes it clear what is intended.

"More doctrine flavour" and personality settings. I would like to start adding more of these in future versions. Right now I have a general 'national doctrine' that governs local initiative and risk aversion. They apply the same to all units. With named leaders I could create modifiers that would shape subordinate units. Per your suggestion some of the modifiers might be known in advance (this particular commander is known to be unusually by-the-book or otherwise wrt local initiative) and some would be unknown (perhaps something like how many subordinates he can effectively control at once in a combat situation). You would then start to assign missions to leaders who seemed better suited to the requirements of the mission.

If I could figure out a cluster of new options that would convey some of this command simulation viewpoint then I could roll it out as a new game option - something like a "Nightmare setting". This would allow people to get used to the game gradually and then try out this more realistic option when they were ready.

Yes, there is lots to consider. Thanks for your suggestions, Rob C

ORIGINAL: rmacrae

On my wish list is that the game become even more of a command simulation. There needs settings for those who want that type of experience to restrict the information flowing the to player to be no more than what a brigade commander and his staff in the 1980’s would reasonably know. More chaos, more uncertainty, less direction to manoeuver units, greater use of chain of command, less fretting over pK's, 'viewpoint' focus for the design.

The map should display the only the last known/reported location of my units i.e. this may not be where they actually are located, as well as the contacts with enemy units as communicated by my units: communicated with varying degrees of accuracy: recon- high; units with screen/hold orders- medium high; hasty move orders -low accuracy, etc modified by veteran, green, etc class.

The hex by hex crawl of my units as they execute orders is not shown on my map, e.g. If a unit is sent on a road move of 10 km, the player would not watch it snake hex by hex over the 10km of road, he would see it in its start location, could toggle to its ordered location, but may only see an updated actual location on his map if it reports its arrival at its destination; if it is destroyed en route, and it fails to get out an ‘enemy contact’ flash, the player would never know its fate.
Frequent communications with HQ (if you wanted to view a hex by hex crawl) generates EW identification for display as a possible unit location on the oppositions map and a candidate for artillery.

There needs a setting whereby I can display on my map all enemy sightings and strength estimates in the last 15/30/60 /90 /120 minutes. Now an enemy icon appears and disappears, and I have to remember where I saw it. And I should only know of contact if it is communicated up the chain of command, not the mere act of engagement. The game in essence manages three maps, one- which is not visible to the players, is where all the units of both sides are actually located,; two – player 1’s map that shows the last reported locations of his own units, with a toggle to display their orders or ordered destinations, plus the last reported locations of enemy contacts as communicated to HQ; three – players 2’s map, which is like players 1’s, mutatis mutandis .

It would be nice to have more doctrine flavour displayed by the units in their execution of orders. The West trumpets the initiative of their soldiers. This is to be implemented by units unilaterally changing their orders – and not just under the pressures of a combat result. Initiative is not just executing exactly what you are told, but faster. This feature would operate by having some Western units changing their screen orders to hold orders, or a deliberate move changed to an assault, or adding another way point to a move etc, initiative being displayed as a bias for more aggression. These order changes would not communicated to the commander (player) until the post game debrief. Units could have personality settings for its commander, thereby giving the player an estimate of who will be reckless. While the West accommodates an extremely hostile EW environment with initiative, the Soviets rely on well-practiced drills to perform battlefield evolutions with the minimum of command input. In these circumstances the Soviet order cycle should be shorter than that of the West. This could be implemented by allowing the Soviet player to give orders at each waypoint, e.g from start to waypoint 1: move hasty, to way point 2: move deliberate, to way point 3: assault. The rigidity of the drill is displayed by the formation being religiously held until the next way point is reached even if the encountered opposition warrants a stop ,or screen, or in this example, an earlier posture of move deliberate than waypoint 2. Except for their recon units, the typical Soviet unit would be slower to send intell and contact info up the chain of command. The Soviets may be faster in their formation evolutions, but would be slower than the West in integrating a 'big picture' view of the battlefield for the player (commander).

As a general interface paradigm, during the orders phase, a nice option would be to have the core of the screen present reports on units in a tabular format, with a small side window that bounces around the map to show the location of a units selected(clicked) on the report., e.g unit ID on the y-axis, measure (status, orders, morale, ammo, etc) on the x-axis. This way I can review entire battalions/regiments with one screen view . (this info would be of varying degrees of accuracy as determined by when units last reported, etc.) and other reports of enemy contacts, location, estimated strength, direction, etc.
Tazak
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RE: The Wish List

Post by Tazak »

The ability to add to the core force over time in campaigns

e.g.
battle 1
TF A (core)
TF B (temp)

Battle 2
TF A (core)
TF C (core)
TF D (temp)

Battle 3
TF A (core)
TF C (core)
TF E (core)
TF F (temp)

and so on
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CapnDarwin
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RE: The Wish List

Post by CapnDarwin »

Nice idea on the adding to core. I guess removing would be cool too.
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC
daferg
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RE: The Wish List

Post by daferg »

I agree so I guess I do this: +1

The time frame would not have to be huge. 1981 had the appearance of the M2 Bradley. 1980 was the year the M1 Abrams was fielded. 1987 was the deployment of the 120mm M1A1 MBT. I do not know when the M-60 TTS came out but that was a game changer along with the US FASCAM mine system. I am more familiar with US equipment but I can only imagine the WARSAW PACT forces have notable years for equipment.
daferg
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RE: The Wish List

Post by daferg »

I looked through all 8 pages and noticed nobody has requested the EM-50 Urban Assault Vehicle. I, for one, think it would be a real game changer for the NATO forces.
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