Zumwalt - NOT for ASuW

[erichswafford]

I was all primed to use the fancy new 69nm-range AGS on my Zumwalt to plaster the Pyotr Velikiy after the obligatory (and entirely ineffectual) missile exchange.

Then I realized that when they say LRLAP, they really DO mean LAND attack projectile...

Suffice to say, it wasn't real pretty for the Good Guys. 2 radar-directed shots from the Peter the Great's 130mm guns caused terminal flooding and that was it. The gun "duel" lasted about 20 seconds.

You know, is it possible that the missiles on both sides have gotten SO good that it'll come down to a gun duel?

Man, that would be cool actually. Maybe when the new IR-seeking projectile for the AGS comes out, it'll be able to hit ships. A 69nm (and some say 100nm) gun, capable of rapid-firing guided projectiles able to take out ships, aircraft and missiles - now that would kinda kick ass.

Seems like the USN has gotten so focused on low-intensity land warfare that they've (temporarily, one hopes) forgotten that their primary mission is SEA control.

Generals and Admirals - always putting in requisitions for toys that were needed in the last war.

[jtoatoktoe]

Hopefully LRASM or a New Tomahawk will give all the VLS ships a new Anti Ship capability that the newer Burke's and Zumwalt's don't have.

[erichswafford]

I wonder if, with the rapid increase in computing power and kinematic performance of the latest missile systems, anything larger than a 155mm shell will be able to make it through - thus returning gunpower to its rightful preeminent position in naval warfare

[jtoatoktoe]

Well Lasers are the real future. I mean if a mortar and small rockets can be taken out by C-RAM (Land CIWS)and other systems there really isn't a reason a shell from a ship can't be either, though the velocity might be a different trajectory and I suppose the shell could be going faster than most missiles. Its all about detection and counter attacking.

[mikmykWS]

Lot of open questions about this ship and many equate it to a Long Beach type design where its really a technology demonstrator of sorts.

I always equate it to the "Arsenal" type ship touted in the 90's. Just a large weapons platform.

Mike

[Gunner98]

Current evolution of C-RAM would have great difficulty taking out artillery shells. Mortars give the system a nice long time of flight and high trajectory for easy detection and time for computation and lining everything up. Rockets are more difficult, the lower trajectory is difficult to detect in time, but they are slow and large in comparison. Artillery fired at low angle has got the relative size of the mortar (although it is bigger, not by much), the trajectory is similar to most rockets, and the speed is faster than both by a long shot, probably in the range of 6-900 MpS - a very difficult ballistic problem. A high angle shot >45*, which reduces the effective range of the shooter, solves the trajectory detection issue and would be easier for a C-RAM type system to hit, but still much more difficult than a mortar because of projectile speed. There is no doubt that the capabilities of C-RAM systems will improve over time, but you are pushing against some fairly basic physics when dealing with the firing solutions so the improvements will be incremental. I suspect that Laser technology will be much more useful in a C-RAM system than in a targeting system for the near future.

I don't know anything about the LRLAP except this from Wiki:

The LRLAP uses a base bleed rocket assistance, and an extended range fin glide trajectory, the warhead effectiveness is comparable to that of the new M795 artillery shell, and it is capable of 6 round MRSI impact in a span of 2 seconds

-Base bleed is now fairly standard and simply means you fill the vacuum behind the shell with some sort of material - usually smoke, from a small capsule in the base of the shell, thus reducing drag.
-Base bleed also implies a shell shape that reduces drag but still maintains stability (the fin guidance would help with that)
-Rocket assist is just that. The interesting bit here is that base bleed and rocket assist are generally mutually exclusive, so not sure how they have achieved this.
-The guidance package is undoubtedly GPS which is why it is land attack only. I'm sure that this will evolve.
-The M795 is pretty effective
-6 Rd MRSI is similar to the PzHow 2000, and is very impressive. Essentially, the first round is fired at the highest angle and lowest charge, the last shell at the lowest angle and highest charge with the ones in he middle being variations on the theme. The capability reduces as you shorten the range but you essentially get a Battery's worth of firepower from one gun.
-combining the guided system with MRSI seems counter intuitive, why would you need both a precision strike and massed fire? I think that it counters the comment above about getting kit for the last war, you would more likely use this combo to engage large targets not generally found in COIN conflicts, and supports Mike's point on technology demonstration.
-To achieve the 60-100nm range the bullet will be moving very fast, probably in the 900+MpS range. Very difficult for a C-RAM type system to deal with.

I would really like to see this baby fire [:D]