Sapper 22 Invades his Homeland

Post descriptions of your brilliant victories and unfortunate defeats here.

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Tom Hunter
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RE: Thoughts and status

Post by Tom Hunter »

@ Bozo, the answer to your question is I dropped it by accident, the interface is such a mess that I could not tell I had it selected, and it went when I clicked on my computer screen to adjust the map. Your note that para's cannot drop into occupied hexes is helpful that might have mattered some. I realize its possible to drop them, and I have read your posts on the subject and the rules, but you must agree that the way its done is a total mess.

If you have any other pointers I would appreciate them. I have paras sitting on bases on rail lines with one or two groups of Li-2s that will not go, which may be because I was targeting an occupied hex. I think the group that went on its own was flying Li-2s that were intercepted, but that is neither here nore there, as I would never have flown them unescorted to that hex on purpose.

"It's boring for him because he has everything written down and plays the first turns exactly the same way over and over again." The fact that we can explain why its boring does not change the fact that it is boring, or that boring is bad in a game. If there is an optimal T1 then its bound to be boring, at least for the Germans. If there was an optimal T4 or T127 that turn would also be dull. Boring should be designed out, not in.
jwolf
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RE: Thoughts and status

Post by jwolf »

It looks like you'll bag several units between Voroshilovgrad and Rostov.  It's a shame the darn river took so long to freeze and kept you from making those moves earlier.  How many NKPS units do you have?  I'm wondering what your rail repair capability is at this point and if you'll be able to make enough rail progress in the South to resume winter operations there.  Good luck with the rest of your blizzard.
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Bozo_the_Clown
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RE: Thoughts and status

Post by Bozo_the_Clown »

If you have any other pointers I would appreciate them. I have paras sitting on bases on rail lines with one or two groups of Li-2s that will not go, which may be because I was targeting an occupied hex.

Check your % Required to Fly setting. It should be 0 or 5%.

Determine whether he has night fighters. If not drop your airborne brigades at night.

Don't have more then one airborne brigade at a single airbase because the men not participating in the air drop get pushed into the other brigade and then it's impossible to drop them.

Keep sorties as low as possible but within reason. Otherwise your brigades will land depleted.

Make sure you have enough transport regiments in your airbases. One Li-2 regiment is not enough. I tend to have all my transport regiments in two airbases.

The air drop system is awkward. But once you've figured it out it's easy. As a matter of fact it's way too easy. I've stopped using them in 41 but would always use them during blizzard and later in the war.

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Michael T
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RE: Thoughts and status

Post by Michael T »

He finds T1 boring because its always the same. T1 never has any change in deployments. Some subtle setup options for both sides would make T1 much more interesting. For me T1 still retains interest because I have new ideas on the backburner all the time [:)]
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Tom Hunter
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RE: Thoughts and status

Post by Tom Hunter »

Michael T gets my point perfectly, and he is right about solutions, it does not take anything dramatic, just don't make things the same.

Saper222 did not like the grip I was starting to get on his armies, so he ran. Which is exactly what I did with him in the first part of 41.

Bozo thanks for the suggestions, I will give them a try.
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BletchleyGeek
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RE: Thoughts and status

Post by BletchleyGeek »

ORIGINAL: Michael T

He finds T1 boring because its always the same. T1 never has any change in deployments. Some subtle setup options for both sides would make T1 much more interesting. For me T1 still retains interest because I have new ideas on the backburner all the time [:)]

Besides that, the First Turn Rules determine outcomes too strongly. Some more variability in prospective combat results would be also a good thing. Knowing where to find the enemy and knowing what forces you need to bring to bear so you're guaranteed to be winning don't make T1 very thrilling.
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Tom Hunter
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Boring vs Not Boring

Post by Tom Hunter »

This is one of the things that makes the start of both World in Flames and WiTP Admirals Edition more fun than the start of this game. In WiF the set up is up to you, so the game starts interesting every time. We all know Poland will fall, but we try to make it fall slower (allies) or faster (axis) its fun, even though we know the end result at the start.

WiTP AE is fun because neither side knows what will be left after the Pearl Harbor attack goes in. Both player watch the attack hoping for a good result and dreading a bad one. The truth is neither one matters much, but its still pretty damn exciting.
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Flaviusx
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RE: Boring vs Not Boring

Post by Flaviusx »

The devil is in the details here. A too freeish setup tends to strongly favor the Soviet. It would be very difficult to do worse than the historical setup.
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Michael T
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RE: Boring vs Not Boring

Post by Michael T »

The variance only need be slight.
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Tom Hunter
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RE: Boring vs Not Boring

Post by Tom Hunter »

I am much more in Michael T's camp, Flaviusx you are technically correct, it would certainly be possible to break the game by doing it wrong. However small variants would make it much more exciting. It could be as simple as giving some Soviet units full movement, or moving some of them one hex in a random direction, or even randomizing the zoc effect for a set of the Soviet units on T1.

The truth is WiTP is not effected much by sinking 2 American battleships or three at Pearl, but everyone watches it, and it makes the turn much more interesting. The same would likely be true of changing the number of units in frontline pockets on T1 in War in the East.
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lastkozak
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RE: Boring vs Not Boring

Post by lastkozak »

One excellent way to deal with this problem, is to have an optional campaign start date and set up. It begins with the German units deployed historically for the date June 26th. The Soviets begin their turn and the opening attacks are carried out and result with the same historical results.
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Tom Hunter
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T28

Post by Tom Hunter »

Saper222 sent me a note saying I had my first German unit surrounded this turn (1 on the map) as it turns out the real number is three, two regiments and a division. I was not able to grab more this turn, and its not really enough, but it is nice to get something.

One of the interesting things about this offensive is that punching the empty bag in the center is turning out to be a good way to capture units, but a bad way to build guards. The troops that have the most wins, and therefore the best chance of converting, are way up North in the Leningrad front. As near as I can tell you need 11 wins to have a chance of getting a guards conversion, and I’ve got one unit at 10, two at 8, and 5 at 7. Many have none. This is one of the many things worth focusing on early in the game, though it does ad huge time overhead to look the units up as you move them.

My motor pool is declining, its now 139k (117) I plan to shift effort up to the Moscow front soon, because the rail heads are much farther forward there. I have 12 RR engineers on map, and am building three more. I would be in much worse shape if Saper222 had continued attacking in the snow, but its still a tough situation to supply my armies.

At the moment I am working on building guards, preparing defense lines, and trying to capture some German units. I’m pleasantly surprised, Saper222 stayed fairly far forward and I think I am getting a few more than he expected, but German casualties over all are very low, 11k this turn.

An interesting point, Saper222 was able to counter attack on a substantial scale last turn, causing 9 retreats often on hexes that had two divisions. Maybe the original blizzard is not that bad? I’m really not sure, I do not have enough data points.

Air war was 60 Axis to 214 Soviet, not a particularly good turn, but not a disaster either, another slow step forward. Factories continue to evacuate, by the time Saper222 starts to advance again there will be nothing anywhere near the front. I think he is still likely to get an auto victory, and I have just discovered that the victory locations display is not working at the moment, if that continues he may find winning much easier. We'll see.


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Toidi
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RE: T28

Post by Toidi »

You are doing very fine with the offensive. You need to keep on going till February, every win you get give you morale and decreases morale of the enemy.
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Peltonx
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RE: T28

Post by Peltonx »

Sapers performance during Blizzards and 1942 summer have been below average at best in his past AAR's.

He rely heavy on 41 after that he has next to nothing for exp, in this case he should not be losing men during blizzard and should easly win out by July.

Your doing much better then I expected, keep up the good work.
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Tom Hunter
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RE: T28

Post by Tom Hunter »

I’m guessing, but I think Saper222 is distracted by his other games. I’m not sure if his strategy has worked or not, he said he was trying one.

For me this game was intentionally about the learning curve. I started knowing very little, figured out german movement rates by T3, Soviet airforce by T10, how to counter attack by T12 or so but could not implement much because of the condition of my army and Saper222s excellent play. It was not until the last few turns that I started looking into how to create guards, or cause them to come into being.

It’s very possible Saper222 will get an auto victory. Last turn I tried looking up the victory locations and they would not even show on the map. They have before, so I am not sure what is up with that but its certainly going to make the defense more interesting. [8|]

Saper222 counterattacked hard around Rostov, we will be going at it hammer and tongs down there.
SigUp
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RE: T28

Post by SigUp »

Victory locations are only shown for smaller scenarios, as they assign VPs to specific cities. In grand campaigns the rule is: 1 VP for a city, 3 VPs for an urban and 5 for a heavy urban hex. Additionally the capital of a country counts another 5 points.
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Tom Hunter
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sample combat T29

Post by Tom Hunter »

This map shows a few things.

You can see me trying to steer the RR repair by blocking an engineer with a 3 unit stack. Something I am sure has frustrated other Soviet players. I've got 17 of them in my OB, two are new with low ToE, 15 are good and working, but sometimes in odd places.

I squashed my first infantry regiment, capturing over 2,000 Germans, in retrospect I could have gotten two wins out of it and brought my army that much close to guards status. Further south you can see (the attack on the screen) that I took advantage of Saper222 leaving a German hex east of the starting position of the 256th infantry. My cavalry attacked, pushing the Germans towards my advancing hoards and giving several of my units one more win towards guard status. I also noticed that Kharkov is not very far away any more, so I'm thinking that is where this group may end up.

Supply is an issue I am getting farther from the railhead.

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Tom Hunter
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If you are new read this post

Post by Tom Hunter »

This is the first time I have seen the Red Airforce gain superiority and bomb the Germans more heavily than they bombed me. So all the turns of bombing to train are starting to pay.

Note that this is a one hex front with three divisions and a brigade attacking. I put the division and an armored brigade on reserve right behind the attacking stack, and the infantry joined in. If you are a veteran this is familiar, but for new players this is a very important tactic.

This may slow Saper222s ability to get out of Rostov, perhaps I will bag an additional German infantry division in a turn or three.

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Wuffer
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RE: If you are new read this post

Post by Wuffer »

Keep on.
Forget all the bla about sudden death or victory points, you are playing for surviving.
Really! This guy is a real killer, if not this year, next saison will be even much more harder...
(Yes, I assume you have realized that by now :-) , I only repeated it for your best(?) generals, which are still arguing over the summer debacle instead of giving advice...) [:(][8D]

IMHO you should not merge to many brigades into div's, you will need every counter next summer.
The German Army is neither beaten nor dead, she's only in short hibernation. Beware, beware...!!! With the first light in early spring you will face them in old strengh



[X(]
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821Bobo
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RE: sample combat T29

Post by 821Bobo »

ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter

You can see me trying to steer the RR repair by blocking an engineer with a 3 unit stack. Something I am sure has frustrated other Soviet players.

Thats great idea Tom. Please let us know if it is working. I will try it myself
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