1.07.12 #10

[Peltonx]

10. Rule Clarification (section 7.1.1.) - Dense terrain modifier is applied to ground element’s CV during combat (attacker and defender alike) in mountain, rough, swamp and heavy wood terrain as well as in cities with population greater than 14.
Ground elements of class “infantry”, “mech infantry”, and “infantry weapons” have their CV doubled. Ground elements of class “SP Weapon”, “Armored Car”, “SP Artillery”, and “AFV” have their CV halved.

Is this attacking or defending or both?

[morvael]

"attacker and defender alike"

which means: use infantry not panzers to root out enemy infantry/cavalry in "dense" terrain (of course when advantage is too great, panzers with their mot inf will also be enough).

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: morvael

"attacker and defender alike"

which means: use infantry not panzers to root out enemy infantry/cavalry in "dense" terrain (of course when advantage is too great, panzers with their mot inf will also be enough).

Hmm I like that makes a Red push much much harder Oka north from 43 on and much harder once the marsh comes into play.

Also plays into my new over all 41 stragedy.

Kinda really have to rethink everything, which is great.

I really like that change.

[morvael]

Remember light woods is not dense, but yes, in some areas it's better to fight with infantry.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: morvael

Remember light woods is not dense, but yes, in some areas it's better to fight with infantry.

Changes things after turn 5 for me in north for sure.

[gingerbread]

This is not a change, is it?

[morvael]

No, it's not. I just documented it, because it wasn't explained properly in the manual aside from:

and effect on fighting in an urban hex for AFV/combat vehicles (halved) and infantry (doubled).

in 15.8.1.

This unknown modifier was the source of outrages of the type "this 1=1 cavalry division in swamp defeated my panzers!" [:)]

[Joel Billings]

I found this in the latest manual:

15.6.2.3. Terrain CV Modifier
AFV and combat vehicle type ground elements will have their CV (26.1.4) reduced by half when attacking or defending in urban, heavy woods, swamp, broken and mountain hexes. Infantry type ground elements will have their CV doubled when in urban, heavy woods, swamp, broken and mountain hexes.
Mountain units have their CV doubled in mountain hexes, no matter what the weather. Ski units will have their combat value (CV) doubled in snow and tripled in blizzard (22.1).

v1.03 Beta 3 - February 7, 2011
Units defending in Heavy or Light Urban terrain receive a doubling of their Combat Value when determining the winner and loser of the battle. This doubling is in addition to all other modifiers previously reported. Prior to this version, this doubling also applied to defenders in Swamp, Rough, Mountain and Heavy Forest terrain. This has been removed, so the doubling now only occurs in Heavy or Light Urban terrain.



Now I have no recollection of removing the dense modifiers in the non-urban hexes (although it's possible we took them out and then added them back in at some point), so Morvael has done us a great service by confirming and listing the correct rules. I know these dense terrain modifiers apply in WitW (actually there are some double dense modifiers that go even further) so I would have assumed they were still in WitE although the living manual indicates otherwise. This is a very important rule, so it's good to know for sure what it is.

[Peltonx]

Now can I exploit the sht out of this rule by attacking into clear hexes from city ?

My infantry CV is 2x in a city so when I attack a panzer stack in clear hex

1. my infantry CV is 2x attacking a clear hex.
2. is my panzer CV 1/2 because I am getting attacked from a city.

[Flaviusx]

Pelton, it is the terrain of the hex being attacked that determines the calculation here, I'd think.

The only exception to this mechanic I am aware of is with the mild blizzard rules.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Pelton, it is the terrain of the hex being attacked that determines the calculation here, I'd think.

The only exception to this mechanic I am aware of is with the mild blizzard rules.

I am thinking no or not WAD


reduced by half when attacking or defending in urban ect

exploit or cheese as you like to say.

[morvael]

Dense modifier is based on the single defender's hex. Applies to both attacking and defending units.

Doubling of fort value (includes terrain multiplier) was and remains only for heavy and light urban hexes for the defender.

[morvael]

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Now can I exploit the sht out of this rule by attacking into clear hexes from city ?

My infantry CV is 2x in a city so when I attack a panzer stack in clear hex

1. my infantry CV is 2x attacking a clear hex.
2. is my panzer CV 1/2 because I am getting attacked from a city.

No, you are attacking into clear terrain - no modifier for both units.

Assuming this city qualifies for dense both units would be affected if it was the other way round - panzer attacking the city. But remember that panzer unit has some infantry elements too, those get double CV, only the tanks suffer.

I intend to publish my updated ToE overview, stating unit CV for dense terrain as well, so people would know what to expect.

[Peltonx]

Are u sure?

Just asking.

[morvael]

Pretty sure it works as described. Setup a scenario with identical units attacking identical units, one in dense, one not. You should see the difference in initial combat CV for example (as I have included it there, previously it was only in the modified).

[Peltonx]

ok will do thks.