New Scenario: Piercing The Gothic Line

[skarp]

Another game another draw. I've got the points shown this time 83 out of 120 available. Supposing I'd captured the Verruca Outpost and gained another 15. Would 98 make that a decisive victory or am I still headed for the cocos isles? [;)]

My number of casualties was excessive for a victory though, a couple more wins like that would finish me off.

[skarp]

another draw. Got the outposts but robbed again of 15 points by a late sneak attack on the monticelli pillboxes [:(]

I think my issue's probably got as much to do with the game engine as the allocation of VPs. In virtually every game I've hammered the enemy base on the first night, often destroying it, and hopefully keeping enemy units out of supply even if I haven't. Therefore I'm thinking I've won on grounds not really covered by the victory points - can scenario writers influence AI surrender decisions?

[Phoenix100]

As I said, Skarp. It's not just your points that do it. Your problem in both the above posts isn't your performance (and it's not the engine, I think) - it's that the Axis still do really well (even though you do too - and that's a consequence of the way the VPs are set up). Basically, you're getting the same points as the Axis, more or less, which means a draw. Given that all the Axis has to do to get high points is hold on as long as possible, and given that you will get high points on most VPs just by occupying them by close of play, it's almost inevitable that you're going to draw, unless you manage to evict the Axis from nearly all VPs within a few hours, or at least get within the VP range circles within a few hours, so that they can't get the points from possession.

Or go into scenmaker and just split all the VP points between occupation and completion, for both sides, then play it. I think it will make a difference. But perhaps not one Chris wanted, since he wanted it to be a hard fight for the Allies, which, it seems, it is. The only way you can win is by doing everything you're doing, but much quicker. [:)]

[ChrisMaiorana]

Hi Guys. I am going to upload an alternate version of this with a few tweaks based on VPs. I've not had a chance to play it yet but I do think it addresses what we've been discussing.

[ChrisMaiorana]

Hi all. This links to the modified scenario file.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jnydewbz027zemj/Piercing%20the%20Gothic%20Line%20Modified.cos

Chris

[skarp]

ORIGINAL: phoenix
The only way you can win is by doing everything you're doing, but much quicker. [:)]

blimey - much quicker is a big ask [;)]
In both games I'd achieved every objective by about 13.30hrs (except for the outpost line) and held onto thereafter. I only did that by with the benefit of hindsight that it could be done and I took unreasonable risks to do it. Moreover the allocation of points except with the outpost line doesn't really "tell" the allied player to go hell for leather.

Having done that most remaining Axis victory locations are not shared and the allied player doesn't know where they and must guess or rely on hindsight. Last game I had a sneaky go at L'Uomo Morto to try and steal a few points there but the plt got disbanded when the enemy counterattacked.

ORIGINAL: CapHillrat

Hi Guys. I am going to upload an alternate version of this with a few tweaks based on VPs. I've not had a chance to play it yet but I do think it addresses what we've been discussing.

Thanks Chris. I hope you're still finding this useful. Thanks for the mod. I'll try and give it a go later. [:)]

[skarp]

ok. tried the mod and if anything I did slightly worse. Once again an axis platoon successfully launched a gamey attack on Monticelli just before game's end and robbed me of points. 36 men taking a position off 250 seems a tad unlikely. What if the Monticelli radius was smaller? I attacked the outpost line much sooner this time but was still unable to secure it by the end. I also held L'Uomo Mort much of the game too and neither this nor my presence at the outpost line dented axis points it seems. Incidentally I destroyed the enemy supply base again - this time by dawn day 2 but lack of Axis supply doesn't seem to have tilted the balance my way.

[skarp]

Well having decided that the late axis attack was a tad gamey I thought I'd better replay from earlier that morning (I'm playing on fast btw and sometimes very fast with a very occasional pause for some orders) and prevent that attack from happening. Well I succeeded and also managed to get the outpost line too so got a 100 points and a marginal victory. Which answered my question about how many more points the allied player needed.

Looking at it overall though the plan I needed to win was pretty outrageous. I've not really changed my approach in all these games with a main straight thrust at Giorgo Pass but I have split my forces more and more to attack secondary objectives sooner to the point where a better Axis player could wreak havoc in my lines. That the AI axis does not may be partly down to its victory locations on the far west of the map, Mt Verruca and the south slope of Mount Alturro which attract enemy defenders that cannot influence the battle at more decisive points.

Thanks for the scenario and the mod Chris.

[Phoenix100]

You have it right, Skarp - the Axis are tied to defending more VPs than the Allies are chasing, and to a certain extent this prevents the AI from massing properly on the main objective. I've modified it to give both sides equal potential Vic points (at present the Axis has more available)and almost equal Vic locs. I also evened out the spread between completion and occupation, and fortified the Axis starting positions. I played as Axis and won very easily, doing very little, which suggests it's balanced (in my mod) in favour of the Allies and would be a challenge as Allies. I've yet to try as Allies though.

It's an interesting scenario. Thanks Chris. Is the map accurate (Chris)? Could find the pass on google earth, but it didn't bare close resemblance to your map. Did you have an historical source?

[ChrisMaiorana]

Hi Phoenix. The map is based on a historical situation map I had in a book. I updated my blog post with the map. You can find it here: http://thesharpendgaming.blogspot.com/2013/12/command-ops-piercing-gothic-line.html

[Phoenix100]

Thanks Chris! It's easier to see without all the vegetation on google earth!

Had a lot of fun with the scenario, and still going.....many thanks!

Still looking forward to Stalingrad!

[BletchleyGeek]

Chris/CapHillrat,

I think you need to check your PM inbox

[Phoenix100]

What is that, Bletch - did you re-do Chris's Italian map with the underlay? Looks very nice.

[BletchleyGeek]

ORIGINAL: phoenix

What is that, Bletch - did you re-do Chris's Italian map with the underlay? Looks very nice.

Yep. I think that the best way to kickstart people with the MapMaker is to give them with a reasonably well-documented example: it's all about seeing the elephant, and getting over the initial shock and awe [:)]

[ChrisMaiorana]

Wow! Thank you! Chris