Globar war / Japan strategy

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Mayhemizer_slith
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Globar war / Japan strategy

Post by Mayhemizer_slith »

I'm starting a game with my friend and I'm playing Axis. I think I know what I'm doing in Europe but I have never played a game in Pacific.

Europe strategy is "normal":
With Germany 1st Poland, then France. After that Barbarossa (or Sea Lion). I keep that in secret because enemy spies may be here...

Italy will conquer Africa :)

I ask some guidelines what to do with Japanese and in what order. I have no idea what to do with them except fight in China...
If your attack is going really well, it's an ambush.

-Murphy's war law
Ur_Vile_WEdge
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RE: Globar war / Japan strategy

Post by Ur_Vile_WEdge »

Japan has 4-5 major policy goals, but unfortunately only limited means to achieve them.

First off, you start with 19 factories. 14 in Japan proper, 1 in Korea, 2 in Manchuria, and 2 in occupied China. Ideally, you want enough resources to run all of them, as well as some oil left over (I'm assuming you're playing with Oil) to keep your units able to move.


Unfortunately, you only start with 10 resources, and 0 oil, in your territory, and while you're making some of that up with trade agreements from the NEI and the Americans, those won't be around forever.


Which brings up the second major policy consideration. China will never really be a threat to you, the Soviets and the CW will likely have their own problems keeping them busy, so the main threat against you is likely to be the Americans. You need to do something to keep them away from the Home Islands. That threat is a long way off, but it's there, and it's deadly.

Now, China is a great source of extra resources. You've got 3 that are relatively easy to reach (Si-An, and those two in the south), but doing so is going to expand your perimeter, which is even more risky in MWiF (I still haven't gotten it, and my experience is completely with the board game). You might find that your strategic needs are better served by making an attempt to completely knock China out, which in addition to securing 2 more usable resources and 2 more factories, means you can get away with having far, far fewer land units tied up in China, although you will of course have to devote considerable energy beating them down.

To make up your other resources shortfalls, you've got a couple of options. Occupying Indo-China nets you a resource, as well as giving you a new avenue to attack Kunming, if you're really going for a kill China policy. After that though, the next available resources are all things you're going to have to fight a major power for: The stuff in the Soviet far east, the NEI and the Phillipenes, and the two resources in Malaya, as well as the oil in Burma.

You should really be coordinating with the German player (which I guess is yourself) about when/if to attack the Soviets: You can't beat them in a straight up land war if they really devote their resources to taking you down, but of course, they're going to be distracted from the millions of German troops on their border. What you want is to overwhelm Vladivostok, and send quick moving weak corps or divisions to secure those 4 resources on the border, or at least as many as you can grab.

But even that is most likely to be a limited war, and don't forget about the compulsory peace option, both to get out of trouble if things go badly, or, more likely, as a limit to what you can do when you do go to war, you're probably only going to have one turn to grab stuff.


The REAL conflict starts when you fight the Americans. If he's done options 26 (fleet to Pearl Harbor) and 34 (war appropriations bill), you have the very real risk of a DoW in the next turn or two. It is VITAL to keep the Americans as far away from you for as long as possible. Even overrunning the Marshalls can be bad, as he's only 2 sea zones away from your main artery in the China sea, easily enough distance to put fast subs in the 4 box to snipe at your convoys.


Therefore, to keep yourself safe, you must

1) Knock out the Phillipenes, by the second turn of war with the U.S. at the LATEST.

2) Knock out the NEI, and secure that oil.

3) Knock out Singapore, to keep that flank safe.


You also very much want to overrun Guam, Rabuul, Hong Kong, (which can't be garrisoned in most situations), and maybe grab Pago Pago, Dutch Harbor, and Midway if they're undefended. The surprise impulse should also probably feature port strikes at Pearl Harbor, and the west coast if he's foolish enough to leave carriers there. If he's under-defended Pearl Harbor, you might even want to consider invading it, although big invasion units will be at a premium.


By mid-late 42, you should have the Marshalls and Truk garrisoned, and taken Malaya, Burma, Indo-China, the Phillipenes, and the NEI. Depending on how well you've done in China and if you've taken anything from the Soviets, you should now have 5 oil a turn and 14-20 resources, which is enough to ensure a healthy production. At that point, dig in fiercely, build lots of navs, and defend with everything you've got, since there's a good chance the Allies will be coming for you. If they're ignoring you, a strike on India or even Australia is probably best. Even if you're forced on the strategic defensive, try to keep a couple of fast cruisers or submarines to raid the Indian ocean with; the Allies are likely funneling the Indian build points to the Soviets up through Persia, and ultimately, the war is won or lost on the Ukranian steppes, so do your part to help the Germans there.

The rest, as they say, is tactics. A lot of the skill with the Japanese is working out a build strategy so that you have the forces you need, when you need them. Sorry for how long the post is, but Japan is arguably the most strategically complex country to play, so it's tough. I'm on hand to provide further elucidation if you need it.








"When beset by danger,
When in deadly doubt,
Run in little circles,
Wave your arms and shout."
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Mayhemizer_slith
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RE: Globar war / Japan strategy

Post by Mayhemizer_slith »

Thank you. Now I have some idea what to do.

And yes, I play all Axis countries with oil and almost all optional rules.

Let's see what happens when we start.
If your attack is going really well, it's an ambush.

-Murphy's war law
Hokum
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RE: Globar war / Japan strategy

Post by Hokum »

Mwif has changed things quite a lot for Japan in the early game; actually Japan is much weaker now. The new map makes China a real risk. It is still possible to knock it out, but it WILL take time, and if your invasion doesn't proceed well enough, you will simply lack the manpower to accomplish other objectives.
Personnally, I wouldn't invade China anymore, I think it's better to shorten the lines and to abandon the Henan and Anhui, falling back into the plains. You have the strength and the mobility to destroy any Chinese incursions.
My favourite strategy then is to go massively anti-CW, and to coordinate the offensive with the Italians and Germans in the Med. It is the only ally you can effectively hurt with all the Axis, and Japan is the only one that can cut supply of Egypt (secondary supply source) in 1941. If the CW massively reinforced India/Ceylon, it will be a gamble, but it is doable.
If Germany went anti-soviet, be on the look for opportunities, but do not waste your manpower there. Taking Vladivostok is nice, but it won't kill the USSR, and there isn't much more you can do.
When the US will enter the war (2-3 turns after you dowed the CW), you still have one or two years of safety because Americans won't risk their fleet until they have a massive superiority. Make sure you're not over-extended, and keep your CVs together (No Midway!). Garrison Kwajalein, Rabaul and Truk with white-print units.
Now, the only thing left to do is to watch the americans MAR to see what they're going for.

brian brian
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RE: Globar war / Japan strategy

Post by brian brian »

Japan is the most fascinating country to play in my opinion. Land combat is a major decision against a well played China.

I agree that the new map will hurt Japan, and not just in China.

But the essence of gaming is to adapt to the situation your forces are presented with. Japan needs to be very good at all of the tactical opportunities in the game system. The action limits hurt Japan a lot on the defense, as they face land powers and naval powers at the same time. Fortunately at least the Russians and Chinese can't work together on action limits the way the CW & USA can. (A 2 player game is much worse for Japan). I think this means their best tactic is a smart counter-attack. The naval powers they face aren't pure naval powers, and the land power they face in China has less ability to deal with tanks than any other. Japan will probably need to maintain air superiority in China to defend it's holdings there, and should not forget what an air impulse can do for them - as well as how much cheaper air units are, in several senses. Fortunately, Japan has very good aircraft designers.
Numdydar
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RE: Globar war / Japan strategy

Post by Numdydar »

ORIGINAL: brian brian

Fortunately, Japan has very good aircraft designers.

Compared to who exactly, the Italians maybe [:)]. Have you played WitP at all? You will quickly find out that by '43 Japanese planes are pretty much useless compared to everyone else.

Now maybe in WiF with proper scraping and building ahead, Japan could have air parity extended a little longer, but eventually nothing they produce will stand up to the Allies in the air.
Numdydar
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RE: Globar war / Japan strategy

Post by Numdydar »

Back to the OP

I actually built 2 Synthic oil plants, one each in the first two production cycles. I figured the payoff over the entire game was well worth the investment at the start. This will provide two Oil points in the HI that I will not have to ever worry about convoying in [:)]
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Klydon
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RE: Globar war / Japan strategy

Post by Klydon »

I think the new Chinese map is something everyone is working on getting a handle on.

I have been working on various Japanese setups and part of it comes down to if the optional Chinese weakness rule is being used or not. Given the map, I do favor its use and assume most players will make use of it. A second rule necessary for what I have been playing around with is unlimited divisional breakdown. Not everyone plays with this one, but most do probably.

Given both rules in play, this can change Japan's approach in China. I have been working on a setup that features Japan breaking down several of their weaker armies for 1 and 2 point divisions. The divisions go in line behind rivers, in mountains, in cities, etc. Given the Chinese are hard pressed to stack units as well, have no ground support to speak of and have a situation where a 4 point infantry unit looking across the river at a 1 point division is only a 1-1 attack on the assault table (and that is before the defensive air support shows up), it works well enough and allows the Japanese to form more of a solid wall if units to prevent the Chinese from "leaking" between units. It also allows the Japanese to form a strike group of a couple of units to consider making a push someplace. Note, the Japanese still need good units up north against the Chi-Coms as they will eat divisions for lunch.

The Japanese early should at least bring in the units from the home island and if the Russians don't look like they are making a push anytime soon in the Far East, consider moving their HQ down to help with supply issues along with perhaps the motorized infantry.
Numdydar
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RE: Globar war / Japan strategy

Post by Numdydar »

I definately did that, moved both the HQ and the motorized corp into China. It really helped. I also took the two corps from the HI and moved them in as well. I really hated taking a marine corp into China, but as noted, Japan at the start really needs the extra troops. Both of these really helped.

As I have never played WiF at all but played a lot of WitP as Japan, the Japanese/Chinese theater does not seem to be that difficult to make headway against China for me. In the first three turns, I have killed 4 units with the lose of one division. Of course, on one attack, I really screwed up and expected to get hurt bad, but rolled a 17 [X(]. If you can't be good, be lucky [:D]
Extraneous
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RE: Globar war / Japan strategy

Post by Extraneous »

[:D] "No Amount of Planning Will Ever Replace Dumb Luck" [:D]


[:D] "Youth and energy will never defeat old age and treachery" [:D]

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)
mjjcpa
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RE: Globar war / Japan strategy

Post by mjjcpa »

I attacked the USSR with Japan in co-ordination with Germany. I took Vladivostok and the two eastern resources. Does the USSR still have that option to surrender to Japan only and start a neutrality pact? In the board game, once Vlad changed hands, I thought either side could invoke a peace treaty. If not, the Reds are in serious trouble.
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Klydon
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RE: Globar war / Japan strategy

Post by Klydon »

Normally they would if option 50 is in use. Unfortunately, option 50 is not currently available as a choice.

Ur_Vile_WEdge
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RE: Globar war / Japan strategy

Post by Ur_Vile_WEdge »

Waitwhat? No compulsory peace?

Of course, at least in a friendly game, that's an optional rule you could make a gentleman agreement on, at least if the mutual peace is working.....
"When beset by danger,
When in deadly doubt,
Run in little circles,
Wave your arms and shout."
mjjcpa
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RE: Globar war / Japan strategy

Post by mjjcpa »

TY

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paulderynck
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RE: Globar war / Japan strategy

Post by paulderynck »

ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge

Waitwhat? No compulsory peace?

Of course, at least in a friendly game, that's an optional rule you could make a gentleman agreement on, at least if the mutual peace is working.....
That would work but the players would have to enforce it manually and ZOCs would extend across borders and you could not attach a trade agreement to it. Also no pact chits would be drawn. Edit: Also no test for losing a US entry chit due to pact between USSR-JP.

But the fact that chits aren't drawn would effect nothing else because MWiF uses an infinite supply of them and is not limited by or expanded by what's already in play.

Distributions of the chit values have been adjusted because of this fact - in case you are wondering.
Paul
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