Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

Post new mods and scenarios here.

Moderator: MOD_Command

Locked
ComDev
Posts: 3116
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 1:20 pm
Contact:

RE: Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

Post by ComDev »

Thanks for your input [8D]

Yes we need to tailor the AI for some of these systems. The SS-N-3 and SS-N-12 limitations are already on my to-do list (for obvious reasons hehe) and also needs to be integrated into the mission planning/execution functionality. Complex stuff, so will get to it a little further down the road.
ORIGINAL: CV60

Probably ya'll have thought about this, but the launch altitude info is already in the database. Is it possible to simply hard code the SS-N-3 to require it being at 0 feet AGL to launch, or is this a matter of the AI needing to understand the submarine needs to surface in order to fire? An additional issue to consider regarding the SS-N-3 is that a firing submarine had to remain surfaced for 8-30 minutes until the SHADDOCK's seeker found the target. See:

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Rus-Crui ... ocId742062; http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... ss-n-3.htm; http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/theater/ss-n-3.htm; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-5_Pyatyorka

On a slightly related point, some of the earlier Soviet ASMs also had fairly stringent launch altitude issues also, so similar AI issues may be present with them.
ORIGINAL: emsoy

ORIGINAL: Der Zeitgeist

There's an inaccuracy with the SS-N-3a Shaddock missile. It currently can be launched by submarines that are submerged, but should only be able to be launched when on the surface. That was one of the main problems with the Soviet Juliett and Echo class subs. I updated my spreadsheet accordingly:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... ring#gid=0

Have been checking off a couple more intems in the list.

The SS-N-3a launch depth needs to wait as we need to get the AI to work with this as well.

Thanks! [8D]
Image

Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!
ComDev
Posts: 3116
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 1:20 pm
Contact:

RE: Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

Post by ComDev »

ORIGINAL: tobias02

Hi to all! There's an inaccuracy with the FREMM air facility,(have a two hangar; 1x medium Aircraft
and 1x large aircraft),and with the Cavour. Principally it's a carrier not an amphibious,
(Marina Militare Italiana site), and carry ad least 16 aircraft,
8 in his hangar and 8 in the open parking, (plus 6 spot on left side
for the heli). And maybe you can add the patrol vessel class "Comandanti"on database?
Thanks for the great game and sorry for my bad English! [:)]

Thank you, the units have been updated accordingly. Let me know if you come across other inaccuracies.

Thanks![8D]
Image

Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!
ComDev
Posts: 3116
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 1:20 pm
Contact:

RE: Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

Post by ComDev »

ORIGINAL: Anathema

Could I please request the following updates.

Royal Australian Navy's HMAS Sirius Replenishment Oiler

Royal New Zealand Navy's L421 Canterbury

AUSTRALIAN AIRCRAFT:
- A minor correction, the RAN NH90 should be TTH version and not the NFH naval version. (navy.gov.au news story)
- RAN is to replace S-70B Seahawk with 24 x MH-60R. (sikorsky.com press release on delivery of first aircraft)
- RAAF EA-18G Growlers to get AGM-88E HARM capability. (airforce-technology.com news story)

Thanks, have added the two ships to my to-do list. Let me know if you need them for a scen and I'll do them asap.

Updated the aircraft as per request [8D]
Image

Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!
JCR
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:40 pm

RE: Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

Post by JCR »

ORIGINAL: emsoy

Thanks for your input [8D]

Yes we need to tailor the AI for some of these systems. The SS-N-3 and SS-N-12 limitations are already on my to-do list (for obvious reasons hehe) and also needs to be integrated into the mission planning/execution functionality. Complex stuff, so will get to it a little further down the road.

If you change it, please do it for the CWDB as well as those missiles are very important in that time frame :)
ComDev
Posts: 3116
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 1:20 pm
Contact:

RE: Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

Post by ComDev »

ORIGINAL: fool12342000

SH-60J and SH-60K have no sonobuoy in their loadout currently.

According to
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/SH-60J_(%E ... 9.E5.93.81
They can carry 25x sonobuoys. (ƒ\ƒmƒuƒC)

Would be great if you could shed some light on the type of sonobuoys actually carried. Thanks! [8D]
Image

Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!
Lerxt
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:11 am

RE: Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

Post by Lerxt »

Requesting the following Indonesian equipment.

Fast Missile Boat KCR-40 and KCR-60. From various sources on the internet (which I can list if you really need it)

Armament
1 x 57mm AK-257 DP
2 X 20 mm AA Guns Denel Vector G2
2 X 2 launchers, anti-ship missiles (SSM) C-705 (China)
2 X Motion Decoy Launcher

Range / Endurance 2400nm @ 20kts

Sensors -Sewaco
- Chinese type 360 seagull air search radar




Also

24 x F-16's Block 25 upgraded to Blk 52 (no AMRAAM)
F-16's

8 x Apache AH-64 Longbow.

Submarines - 3 x Improved Chang Bogo


ComDev
Posts: 3116
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 1:20 pm
Contact:

RE: Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

Post by ComDev »

Hi Lerxt, would be great if you could post up those links you have. Thanks! [8D]
Image

Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!
e2204588
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:46 pm

RE: Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

Post by e2204588 »

Sorry, I don't have good reference.

But,it seems following sonobuoys are latest equipment according to JMSDF's announcement.
HQS-33D DICASS
HQS-13G-1 DIFAR
HQS-21D LOFAR

Source:
http://www.mod.go.jp/j/approach/others/ ... t/0265.pdf
http://www.mod.go.jp/epco/supply/jissek ... dennon.pdf


SH-60J may not able to carry dipping sonar and sonobuoy simultaneously.
e2204588
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:46 pm

RE: Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

Post by e2204588 »

SH-60F has 25x sonobuoy and AN/APS-124 surface search radar.

But as I know,
SH-60B -> No dipping sonar.
SH-60F -> No surface search radar, ESM, and MAD, less sonobuoy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_SH-60_Seahawk
http://books.google.com.tw/books?id=VO8 ... 42&f=false
http://www.airvectors.net/avs70_2.html#m2
El Savior
Posts: 336
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 4:05 pm
Location: Finland

RE: Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

Post by El Savior »

Näcken-class submarine, Sweden.

Torpedoes TP-612 and TP-421 can't fire submarines, only surface contacts. Is this intentional or bug? Trying to attack submarine with Näcken-class but it has no weapons. This is originally torpedo boat class torpedo, but converted to submarine torpedo.

According to The Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapons Systems, 1997-1998 Egypt uses same torpedoes for Sea King helicopters. This is older 61 torpedo, but 612 is based on same. So they might be able to attack subs too.
Source: http://books.google.fi/books?id=l-DzknmTgDUC&pg=PA685&lpg=PA685&dq=tp 61 torpedo&source=bl&ots=2siPC-thFl&sig=FQz4jLf_7foZgV8eiO4AUJilhxU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=F_CgUrn7CIbw4gT94IDABA&ved=0CEwQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=tp%2061%20torpedo&f=false
El Savior
decaf
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:44 pm

RE: Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

Post by decaf »

Just wanted to say thank you for adding
the deweaponized Supply class I posted below. [:)]


================================================
Platform Request - - - -

Please add a USNS "Supply" class, T-AOE version
(unweaponized).

You have entries #490 and #897 for AOE 6 Supply.
The latter entry is dated from 1997-2003.

Supply is a class of 4 ships.
All 4 ships have been transferred to
Military Sealift Command (MSC) and their designations
have all been changed from AOE to T-AOE.
Please refer to Janes 2011-2012 pg 951 for updated
stats -- for example, crew is 188 instead of 235.
(but, also see the USNI book below...)

Most important, this transferred class has been
de-weaponized. (which is why I write.)

For the new, T-AOE USNS Supply Class, please drop
the CIWS, the Bushmaster, and the Sea Sparrow.
Please adjust the weapons magazines accordingly.
I believe the sensors have also been de-weaponized.
(Those Sparrows are gone.)
Please drop the Mk95's (both mounts, both EO and radar).
Retain the SPS-64 and SPS-67.

Details of what was dropped can be found -->
See page 271 of "The Naval Institute Guide to the Ships
and Aircraft of the U.S. Fleet" 18th edition.
They say the Pixies are gone, too.

Confirmation of the de-weaponization, transfer, and
continued service can be found at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USNS_Supply_%28T-AOE-6%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USNS_Rainier_%28T-AOE-7%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USNS_Arctic_%28T-AOE-8%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USNS_Bridge_%28T-AOE-10%29

A Jan. 8, 2013 picture of T-AOE 6 USNS Supply performing
replenishment-at-sea for CVN 77 can be found at:

http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/59/5906.htm
http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/59/09590633.jpg
Jakob Wedman
Posts: 125
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:57 pm

RE: Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

Post by Jakob Wedman »

ORIGINAL: El Savior

Näcken-class submarine, Sweden.

Torpedoes TP-612 and TP-421 can't fire submarines, only surface contacts. Is this intentional or bug? Trying to attack submarine with Näcken-class but it has no weapons. This is originally torpedo boat class torpedo, but converted to submarine torpedo.

According to The Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapons Systems, 1997-1998 Egypt uses same torpedoes for Sea King helicopters. This is older 61 torpedo, but 612 is based on same. So they might be able to attack subs too.
Source: http://books.google.fi/books?id=l-DzknmTgDUC&pg=PA685&lpg=PA685&dq=tp 61 torpedo&source=bl&ots=2siPC-thFl&sig=FQz4jLf_7foZgV8eiO4AUJilhxU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=F_CgUrn7CIbw4gT94IDABA&ved=0CEwQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=tp%2061%20torpedo&f=false
Yes, Tp 421 should be a ASW torpedo.
decaf
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:44 pm

RE: Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

Post by decaf »

<deleted as redundant> [:)]
User avatar
apd1004
Posts: 176
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:35 am

RE: Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

Post by apd1004 »

Wow, 4 days ago seems like an eternity in this thread.

I also want to say thank you for fixing the ZSU-23-4 and jumping on all these requests & recommendations from the players.

Not sure how many of these ideas below are doable in CMANO, but I figure it doesn't hurt to discuss them. Some are pretty down in the weeds especially for a naval/air sim.

I'm thinking helicopters need a different way of being targets somehow, especially to AAA and fast mover jets engaging low-flying helicopters from altitude, at least over land. Big difference between a fast mover target and a helicopter target - even a fast helicopter - when it comes to AAA fire. How easy would it be to work in a new set of altitudes or profiles just for helicopters, one called "terrain masking" or similar (flying at speed at treetop level or lower) and another called "popup mode" (no forward movement, hiding behind trees)? A helicopter in popup mode would be the most difficult to engage while terrain masking would be difficult but less than popup mode to engage, as opposed to flying straight and level above the ground objects (which helicopters rarely do on the battlefield). Obviously only certain types of helicopters would be capable of popup mode, mainly dedicated attack helicopters such as AH-64, Mi-24, etc. On the opposite end of the spectrum you have anti-aircraft weapons such as the SA-19 on the 2S6, which were designed specifically to counter popup tactics and they should have a higher PoK in that case.

fool12342000 had a great idea with his formula for PoK adjustments depending on several different modifiers rather than just a base modifier for how nimble the aircraft is. An aircraft just flying along that all the sudden gets engaged by a SAM might get treated a bit different (it is able to take evasive action fairly easy) than an aircraft that is engaging a ground target with a weapon and needs to fly relatively straight and level while using that weapon (engaged offensive in the middle of designating a LGB for example)? Maybe different levels of evasive action (full, limited, none) or a choice to abort weapon deployment to evade. Conversely, a SAM engaging right at its minimum range or a "snap shot" would have its own modifiers applied.

Thanks again for your efforts at keeping the DB3K a living, breathing, document.

Cheers
apd1004
_______________
Jeff Leslie
Akron OH, USA
ComDev
Posts: 3116
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 1:20 pm
Contact:

RE: Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

Post by ComDev »

ORIGINAL: fool12342000

Sorry, I don't have good reference.

But,it seems following sonobuoys are latest equipment according to JMSDF's announcement.
HQS-33D DICASS
HQS-13G-1 DIFAR
HQS-21D LOFAR

Source:
http://www.mod.go.jp/j/approach/others/ ... t/0265.pdf
http://www.mod.go.jp/epco/supply/jissek ... dennon.pdf


SH-60J may not able to carry dipping sonar and sonobuoy simultaneously.

Thanks! [8D]

But this isn't very much to go on... sonobuoy models live for about 5 years, so need pretty detailed info. Ref US Navy and RN sonobuoys in the Command database.
Image

Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!
ComDev
Posts: 3116
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 1:20 pm
Contact:

RE: Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

Post by ComDev »

ORIGINAL: Lerxt
24 x F-16's Block 25 upgraded to Blk 52 (no AMRAAM)
F-16's

8 x Apache AH-64 Longbow.

Submarines - 3 x Improved Chang Bogo

Added requests for these and assigned to myself, thanks [8D]
Image

Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!
ComDev
Posts: 3116
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 1:20 pm
Contact:

RE: Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

Post by ComDev »

ORIGINAL: El Savior

Näcken-class submarine, Sweden.

Torpedoes TP-612 and TP-421 can't fire submarines, only surface contacts. Is this intentional or bug? Trying to attack submarine with Näcken-class but it has no weapons. This is originally torpedo boat class torpedo, but converted to submarine torpedo.

According to The Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapons Systems, 1997-1998 Egypt uses same torpedoes for Sea King helicopters. This is older 61 torpedo, but 612 is based on same. So they might be able to attack subs too.
Source: http://books.google.fi/books?id=l-DzknmTgDUC&pg=PA685&lpg=PA685&dq=tp 61 torpedo&source=bl&ots=2siPC-thFl&sig=FQz4jLf_7foZgV8eiO4AUJilhxU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=F_CgUrn7CIbw4gT94IDABA&ved=0CEwQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=tp%2061%20torpedo&f=false

According to a rather detailed and reliable source, the Tp 421 was a passive-homing anti-ship self-defence weapons and did not have ASW capability. The helicopter version was Tp 422 and entered service 5 years later.

I'm checking with Jakob on this one and will let you know.

Thanks! [8D]
Image

Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!
ComDev
Posts: 3116
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 1:20 pm
Contact:

RE: Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

Post by ComDev »

ORIGINAL: apd1004

Wow, 4 days ago seems like an eternity in this thread.

I also want to say thank you for fixing the ZSU-23-4 and jumping on all these requests & recommendations from the players.

Not sure how many of these ideas below are doable in CMANO, but I figure it doesn't hurt to discuss them. Some are pretty down in the weeds especially for a naval/air sim.

I'm thinking helicopters need a different way of being targets somehow, especially to AAA and fast mover jets engaging low-flying helicopters from altitude, at least over land. Big difference between a fast mover target and a helicopter target - even a fast helicopter - when it comes to AAA fire. How easy would it be to work in a new set of altitudes or profiles just for helicopters, one called "terrain masking" or similar (flying at speed at treetop level or lower) and another called "popup mode" (no forward movement, hiding behind trees)? A helicopter in popup mode would be the most difficult to engage while terrain masking would be difficult but less than popup mode to engage, as opposed to flying straight and level above the ground objects (which helicopters rarely do on the battlefield). Obviously only certain types of helicopters would be capable of popup mode, mainly dedicated attack helicopters such as AH-64, Mi-24, etc. On the opposite end of the spectrum you have anti-aircraft weapons such as the SA-19 on the 2S6, which were designed specifically to counter popup tactics and they should have a higher PoK in that case.

fool12342000 had a great idea with his formula for PoK adjustments depending on several different modifiers rather than just a base modifier for how nimble the aircraft is. An aircraft just flying along that all the sudden gets engaged by a SAM might get treated a bit different (it is able to take evasive action fairly easy) than an aircraft that is engaging a ground target with a weapon and needs to fly relatively straight and level while using that weapon (engaged offensive in the middle of designating a LGB for example)? Maybe different levels of evasive action (full, limited, none) or a choice to abort weapon deployment to evade. Conversely, a SAM engaging right at its minimum range or a "snap shot" would have its own modifiers applied.

Thanks again for your efforts at keeping the DB3K a living, breathing, document.

Cheers

Thanks for your input, have copy-pasted your post into our existing 'Gun PoK improvements' design document [8D]
Image

Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!
ComDev
Posts: 3116
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 1:20 pm
Contact:

RE: Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

Post by ComDev »

Have corrected the Tp 421 as per Jakob's instructions [8D]
&nbsp;
Thanks again Jakob.
Image

Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!
Jakob Wedman
Posts: 125
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:57 pm

RE: Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

Post by Jakob Wedman »

ORIGINAL: emsoy

Have corrected the Tp 421 as per Jakob's instructions [8D]

Thanks again Jakob.
Well, thanks for not pointing out that it was I that gave you the quote from the book Kustflottan from the beginning
Locked

Return to “Mods and Scenarios”