Physical Only ?

World in Flames is the computer version of Australian Design Group classic board game. World In Flames is a highly detailed game covering the both Europe and Pacific Theaters of Operations during World War II. If you want grand strategy this game is for you.

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76mm
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RE: Physical Only ?

Post by 76mm »

ORIGINAL: Aurelian
Making sense is subjective. I certainly see where they are coming from. So to me, it makes sense.
OK, but I wish that you or someone else would enlighten me as to where they are coming from, because really I don't understand it at all, and to me it makes no sense. You're talking about the argument that "The only way to do this game right is for it to have hard copy manuals?"
ORIGINAL: Aurelian
The any color as long as it's black comment does not. We're not talking how Model Ts went from color choices to one because the black paint dried faster that say, Brewster green, (day and a half vs two weeks.) Nor are we talking about a car that at its height was produced at the rate of 1 every 10 seconds.
um ok. if you're saying that there was a valid economic reason for only giving customers choice of one color of car, it seems that here there is no such reason with these books,and Matrix itself said that it's margin is lower because of the books. maybe I don't understand what you're saying.
ORIGINAL: Aurelian
And way back when, I had to buy a CD drive to play TIE Fighter. And a DVD drive for games that required one. So what? It's a hobby.)
No one is complaining about buying a computer or anything else that you need to buy the game, like your CD or DVD drives. Specificially it is paying $$ for postage for stuff that you don't want or need which has people excited.

For the record, I decided to buy the game by having the books sent to my parents in the US for $9, which is tolerable (but still irritating because there is no need for it).
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RE: Physical Only ?

Post by Neilster »

Steve has said that one of the reasons for the hardcopy manuals is to facilitate gameplay on one monitor. The manuals have really handy appendices that can prevent screen real-estate being taken up with stuff they contain. They're cheaper than buying a second monitor.

The game can still be played on a single monitor but the manuals will really help there.

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RE: Physical Only ?

Post by 76mm »

ORIGINAL: Neilster
Steve has said that one of the reasons for the hardcopy manuals is to facilitate gameplay on one monitor. The manuals have really handy appendices that can prevent screen real-estate being taken up with stuff they contain. They're cheaper than buying a second monitor.

Sorry, but the arguments are getting more ridiculous all the time. It is much easier for me to keep my iPad at my side at my computer with the manuals than to have to prop open a bunch of paper manuals. This is NOT the kind of decision a game developer should be making for customers.
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RE: Physical Only ?

Post by Neilster »

ORIGINAL: 76mm
ORIGINAL: Neilster
Steve has said that one of the reasons for the hardcopy manuals is to facilitate gameplay on one monitor. The manuals have really handy appendices that can prevent screen real-estate being taken up with stuff they contain. They're cheaper than buying a second monitor.

Sorry, but the arguments are getting more ridiculous all the time. It is much easier for me to keep my iPad at my side at my computer with the manuals than to have to prop open a bunch of paper manuals. This is NOT the kind of decision a game developer should be making for customers.
Which is great if you have a tablet/laptop. Isn't this actually only costing you $9? What's your time worth? You must have spent hours blowing up over this.

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RE: Physical Only ?

Post by Neilster »

76mm, I have sympathy for your position. I just have bigger things to worry about than a few tens of dollars for a wargame that I know I am going to play for thousands of hours.

If I take a woman out to dinner and buy a couple of bottles of wine, it will cost me far more than that with nothing tangible to show for it.

The views of the digital download people have been repeatedly and forcefully expressed. I'm sure the powers that be have noted them.

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RE: Physical Only ?

Post by bairdlander2 »

ORIGINAL: Neilster


The views of the digital download people have been repeatedly and forcefully expressed. I'm sure the powers that be have noted them.

Cheers, Neilster
Then why no response?Again,there is no valid reason that this cannot be dd with the option of getting the books if one chooses like every other game released.The giant map is optional,so why not the books.[&:]We still have not been given a valid reason from Matrix and I dont think they will give one because there is no reason.I was realley looking forward to this,but its a big letdown.
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RE: Physical Only ?

Post by Neilster »

ORIGINAL: bairdlander
ORIGINAL: Neilster


The views of the digital download people have been repeatedly and forcefully expressed. I'm sure the powers that be have noted them.

Cheers, Neilster
Then why no response?Again,there is no valid reason that this cannot be dd with the option of getting the books if one chooses like every other game released.The giant map is optional,so why not the books.[&:]We still have not been given a valid reason from Matrix and I dont think they will give one because there is no reason.I was realley looking forward to this,but its a big letdown.
Well then get it. Are you on the poverty line? If so, fair enough. If not, it's really not a huge deal for such a great game that you'll be able to play for so long and with so much development potential. Most of us thought the game would be at least US$150 anyway because it's so huge.

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RE: Physical Only ?

Post by Solaristics »

ORIGINAL: 76mm
Sorry, but the arguments are getting more ridiculous all the time.

+1


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RE: Physical Only ?

Post by 76mm »

ORIGINAL: Neilster
Which is great if you have a tablet/laptop. Isn't this actually only costing you $9? What's your time worth? You must have spent hours blowing up over this.

Uh, if you don't have a tablet, by all means buy the books (actually I recommend getting a tablet instead, it will be much more useful, although I will not force you to do so).

My time is actually worth quite a bit, but so are my principles. So I'll buy the game but am not prepared to stop complaining about it! I really don't care that much, but after hearing so many goofy justifications for this decision am actually getting rather curious what the real reason is.
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RE: Physical Only ?

Post by bairdlander2 »

[>:][>:]Still waiting for a valid reason to the question.
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RE: Physical Only ?

Post by bairdlander2 »

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Steve has said that one of the reasons for the hardcopy manuals is to facilitate gameplay on one monitor. The manuals have really handy appendices that can prevent screen real-estate being taken up with stuff they contain. They're cheaper than buying a second monitor.

The game can still be played on a single monitor but the manuals will really help there.


From the 7 wow's "During a game you don’t need to leaf through the Players Manual looking for how to use, just click on the Help button to bring up the text from the Players Manual" so your arguement for the books is bolla bolla
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RE: Physical Only ?

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Steve has said that one of the reasons for the hardcopy manuals is to facilitate gameplay on one monitor. The manuals have really handy appendices that can prevent screen real-estate being taken up with stuff they contain. They're cheaper than buying a second monitor.

The game can still be played on a single monitor but the manuals will really help there.


From the 7 wow's "During a game you don’t need to leaf through the Players Manual looking for how to use, just click on the Help button to bring up the text from the Players Manual" so your arguement for the books is bolla bolla
Yes, for forms, the help buttons are very useful. But looking up the combat results charts and numerous other items that new players need to reference is easier if they are sitting beside the player on a printed page. The appendices group together all that stuff in one place. Using the screen to display reference information obscures the screen - that's a drawback. Two monitors helps. A separate ebook reader helps. The printed manuals also help.
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RE: Physical Only ?

Post by Hotschi »

ORIGINAL: Neilster

I just have bigger things to worry about than a few tens of dollars for a wargame that I know I am going to play for thousands of hours.

If I take a woman out to dinner and buy a couple of bottles of wine, it will cost me far more than that with nothing tangible to show for it.

Cheers, Neilster

Amen to this.

While I understand the frustration of people who simply don't want the manuals but want the game nonetheless, one should put things into perspective.
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RE: Physical Only ?

Post by wodin »

ORIGINAL: radic202

ORIGINAL: Hertston
ORIGINAL: Fleming

It's crazy.
I just spoke to my colleague who has a sister living in Washington; maybe I'll order and send the manuals to her place. It's almost winter I'm sure she has a fireplace somewhere :)

After six pages of this thread I still can't see a coherent, let alone convincing, argument for there not being a same-price d/d only release. There would be no devaluation in anything. The alleged superiority of the printed page over a .pdf is opinion, not fact. All that is necessary is just not to mail the manuals. Throw them in the trash. Donate them to Fleming's colleague's sister as firelighters. Even keep them in stock to cut down on costs of the next print run (radical, huh?).

Personally, I'm hanging on either till a more sensible method of distribution to the UK is found, or for the direct download only option U-turn I fully expect to see as soon as Slitherine/Matrix think they can get away with without pissing too many people off. The 'people who have already paid' argument against doesn't hold as exactly the same will apply to future shipping of the manuals from within Europe. As with the weekly deals, keep banging away long enough and it will hopefully sink in.

Keep the paper manuals, I don't want the bloody things - let alone a map I don't even have room to unfold.

As the man says, crazy. [X(]




As per my other thread on the exorbitant shipping costs ( and I am on the same bloody continent where it is being shipped from?) I am going to hold off, such a shame though as I was ready to purchase the New Flashpoint Germany as well and in bolding your second comment, I will hold off that purchase as well.

In the Gaming World, If we can't use our wallets to voice our opinions, then what do we have left?

I remain loyal for now and will continue hoping.

Don't hold off from FCRS..this isn't OTS fault.
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RE: Physical Only ?

Post by Aurelian »

ORIGINAL: 76mm

[

For the record, I decided to buy the game by having the books sent to my parents in the US for $9, which is tolerable (but still irritating because there is no need for it).

I know you did. As for the economic reasons of "any color....", that was already explained :)

And for the record, I agree with you on the manuals. While they may be nice to have, they are not necessary to play the game. It is irritating.

I only buy hard cover books when I have to. (I mean, Chandler's Campaigns of Napoleon in a used book store for $25 over the Kindle $65 version...)

When I get the game I get the books too. But they'll sit on the shelves as I'm not going to give them away to some guy's friend who is too good for printed PDFs
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RE: Physical Only ?

Post by are »

The game is excellent and for old people like me (I'm 40 years old) the manuals are essential. I think the cost of the game was worth it, even with exorbitant shipping cost with Fed Ex (120 dollars to Norway!) - still I have 3 friends who play WIF who will not buy the game due to the shipping costs. And why not use USPS - I do not understand. They charge less than $30 to send a similar package across the ocean.
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RE: Physical Only ?

Post by Centuur »

ORIGINAL: are

The game is excellent and for old people like me (I'm 40 years old) the manuals are essential. I think the cost of the game was worth it, even with exorbitant shipping cost with Fed Ex (120 dollars to Norway!) - still I have 3 friends who play WIF who will not buy the game due to the shipping costs. And why not use USPS - I do not understand. They charge less than $30 to send a similar package across the ocean.

I would advise your friends to wait until the European warehouse is operating. They expect to be up and running in february-march. Than shipping costs shall surely be lower in Europe.
Peter
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RE: Physical Only ?

Post by Whitemanematrix »

ORIGINAL: LargusMeans

Long time reader/lurker, waiting for this for 10 years now after playing the original beta. Credit card ready, but purchase time and 158.65 CAD? $40+ for shipping for items I don't want or need? No thanks. I'll continue to play VASL.

And yes I own World in Flames The Final Edition, and no I don't want more crap and clutter in my life. Give me the option to buy the game for $111 digital edition and I'm sold. But I am not paying fedex $47 for shipping for a waste of energy, trees and products that will get recycled immediately. Inane stupidity.

Sorry Matrix, I have spent hundreds of dollars on your products, but not this time. Very poor approach when the same message is being told repeatedly, we don't mind paying the cost, but 40% shipping on top, forget it.


I'm in exactly the same boat. For me it's not the books but the %40 shipping cost for them. No thanks
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RE: Physical Only ?

Post by GrimOne »

I have to agree. I have spent hundreds of dollars on matrix games and I would like to buy WIF but no way am I going to pay an additional $50 bucks for shipping books I wont look at. That's what Ipads are for.
I mean even if there was an option to not have to pay shipping when you order the game and Matrix keeps the dam books - but you have to pay shipping to buy the game. This is crazy !.
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RE: Physical Only ?

Post by Whitemanematrix »

ORIGINAL: GrimOne

I have to agree. I have spent hundreds of dollars on matrix games and I would like to buy WIF but no way am I going to pay an additional $50 bucks for shipping books I wont look at. That's what Ipads are for.
I mean even if there was an option to not have to pay shipping when you order the game and Matrix keeps the dam books - but you have to pay shipping to buy the game. This is crazy !.

Yep I'd buy in heartbeat. Not asking for a discount, just will not pay an extra $40-50 to UPS/Fed-ex to get them. Hell keep them donate them to charity for all I care =)
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