I hate the reinforcement AI

[rmonical]

6.Pz has been the only German Panzer unit in refit mode for three turns. Turns 45-47.
Turn 1 it gets a few Pz35Ts and nothing else
Turn 2 it gets a few Pz IVf2s
Turn 3 it gets a few Pz IVgs.

So after 3 weeks as being the priority division to get replacement tanks, the AI manages to deliver 20 of the roughly 180 medium tanks produced to this unit.

[Joel Billings]

Is it in the rear and on a rail line?

[rmonical]

17 hexes back in Kiev with the Corps HQ right there for the last two turns because the 1st turn on refit was such a bust.

[Peltonx]

I have 235k men stuck in manpower pool for 5 turns of mud.

AI is very screwy when it comes to Germen replacements always has been always will be I am guessing at this pt.

Not sure about how .11 is working as no one has gotten that far from start to finish.

seemly little odd things snowball by 44

[Oberst_Klink]

ORIGINAL: Pelton

I have 235k men stuck in manpower pool for 5 turns of mud.

AI is very screwy when it comes to Germen replacements always has been always will be I am guessing at this pt.

Not sure about how .11 is working as no one has gotten that far from start to finish.

seemly little odd things snowball by 44

Well, Pelton... see it as a feature; it simulates the growing interference of the Charlie Chaplin 'lookalike' in the Wolfsschanze

Klink, Oberst

[Mehring]

What about the MG34 to 42 switch? A couple of hundred MG42 units are produced each week and literally thousands of MG34s are withdrawn to the pool leaving every division depleted of MGs.

[rmonical]

This thread is becoming a kind of reprise of earlier threads on the element swap logic subject. One reason I am running a Soviet and Axis game side be side is to see how this evolves in head to head play. My earlier analysis was based on a lot of AI vs AI and AI vs human play. This problem is different in that a lot of elements delivered in the refit phase are not going to refit units. At least in the case of medium tanks.
tm.asp?m=3323155&mpage=1&key=swap&#3323155
tm.asp?m=3318460&mpage=1&key=swap&#3321583

[morvael]

That's my main task for patch .13, will not touch it before .12 is launched. I think this is the last aspect that can be relatively easy repaired that is one of the biggest gripes people have with the engine. Please post your ideas of how that should work, within the limits that are low number of slots in the TOE.

[morvael]

As for the AI games - I have noticed that AI is unable/unwilling to withdraw units for refit, and for example new tanks wait in the pool while pz divisions are low on tank numbers. In any case I plan to reduce swap/upgrade limits for the AI so that it would be able to benefit from new weapon systems even if it will not pull back units from the frontlines.

[gingerbread]

ORIGINAL: Mehring

What about the MG34 to 42 switch? A couple of hundred MG42 units are produced each week and literally thousands of MG34s are withdrawn to the pool leaving every division depleted of MGs.

Upgrades are not included in the 'Built' number. I'm not saying that what you state is not happening, but if you want to know the number of MG42 units in the divisions, you should check those by pressing the rightmost number and compare btw turns.

[Denniss]

The MG34/42 issue could be fixed by using the equipment import/export function to transform MG 34 into MG 42. But Jim won't use it unless there's a similar system possible for the Soviet side - neither import nor export currently possible for them. By using this function onehave to tone down armament production or neither side will run low of it due to less requirement from new-production-upgrades.

What needs to be fixed is the intertype equipment upgrade block in units: some slots do not upgrade or keep old stuff not in TOE. Examples are the hard-to-eliminate 38t(E), IIf instead of/together with Wespe, SU-122 instead of or with SU-85 or the occasional DD tank instead of or with light tanks.

What needs to be looked at is the enormous number of Axis tanks lots as non-repairable, especially in 41 you'll see higher numbers than the reliability of 25 suggest (although may be inflated by captured tanks). According to Jim or Pavel the german tanks require more maintenance but should have a higher repair efficiency to counter the higher-value reliability rating.

[gingerbread]

Introducing the import functionality for the Soviets would necessitate reducing their ARM multiplier or better, improve the import functions so that it is possible to charge ARM for the conversion. The Soviets would otherwise have too easy a time since the evacuation during '41 would be made under less pressure.

[rmonical]

Another week and 6.Pz is up to 53 medium tanks. I'm going to put 1.Pz into refit to see if there is an issue with only a single division in refit. It cannot get any worse for 6.Pz



The 15 PzIVgs in the pool are in the active pool. There are none in the transit pool. The other medium tanks delivered in the refit phase were delivered to units not in refit mode.

[Denniss]

Squad upgrading is a huge armament drain for both sides, especially for expensive suads like cav. If you leave it to squads then armament cost would be minimal - usually just minor equipment changes.
Upgrades to vehicles is a different matter.
Romania would also benefit a lot from upgrades so it doesn't lose that much manpower by using their 17-man rifle squad far into 1942/43 due to armament shortness.

[rmonical]

Please post your ideas of how that should work, within the limits that are low number of slots in the TOE.

I would like the option to set the AI to not produce certain element types:
tm.asp?m=3334663&mpage=1&key=Motorcycle&#3334663
Obviously, a priority scheme also works but may be difficult.
A TOE solution is to simply greatly reduce the motorcycles and cavalry in the 42 divisions. I did not see any tactical cavalry or motorcycle units in any of my HPS simulations '42 Panzer Campaign games.

[Denniss]

Motorcycle production could (and should) probably be limited to a certain amount per turn, maybe cav squads as well.

[morvael]

"Exports" are the best solution for the rifle squad upgrade arm drain. For a while I thought about instant scrapping of old rifle squads (without waiting full year), but then there is no guarantee that freed ARM won't go to guns or tanks. "Exports" do not have this problem.

Limiting auto-produced elements shouldn't be a problem, the build limit field could be used for that (assuming that the game will still know given element is auto-produced based on it's class).

Worst problem is switching to new types. If there wouldn't be a TOE slot limit in place then it would be a simple matter of adding new tanks to all eligible units, while leaving old type in place until it would be gradually phased out due to natural losses. In the slot world there is a need to estabilish a point at which all old tanks are to be removed and replaced with a significant number of new tanks and this is bad if units that already have those new tanks drain the pool taking 1-2 new tanks each.

There is also a problem of all support units being on permanent refit, thus competing for some equipment with on map units. So in your example the panzer division wasn't the only unit on refit.

[rmonical]

So in your example the panzer division wasn't the only unit on refit.

But it is the only unit that has slots for medium tanks.

[rmonical]

T49 (these are total AFVs, not just medium tanks) - the withdrawing 10.Pz picks up 18 AFVs as it is in automatic refit.
6.Pz lost 3 and 1.Pz gained 1.

6.Pz lost AFVs because the swap logic swapped out the f2s with gs instead of the P35s with Pz IIIs so I have the fun situation where two slots now have PzIVs gs. There remain 16 gs in the active pool.

The engine is mocking me.

[morvael]

What is the date? There is some adjustment made to replacement rates based on Axis rail supply modifier, so the further east the lower chance/numbers of replacements. But I don't know details.