When do modern navies use radar and sonar?

[PaulWRoberts]

I'm curious about naval radar and sonar use.

As I understand it, modern navies on alert will use air radar pretty much all the time. They don't want to miss incoming air threats, so they will maximize radar coverage whenever air attack is possible.

What about active sonar? Is this something used all the time or more seldom than radar? Would every ship in a task force run its active sonar, or just the destroyers, or who? Would ASW helicopters be out whenever the task force was on alert, or only when subs had already been reported or suspected in the area?

Obviously, all of this is asking about realistic EMCON settings for game play. What guidelines should I remember for realistic play?

[jomni]

I use them all the time. Except for subs that I want to sneak around.

[dandin384]

That really varies on a number of different factors. I'm not sure if this applies to other navies, but I'm going to assume it's similar.

Let's start with US submarines...the active sonar on them is almost never used. Of course there are exceptions to this(mapping minefields, for example). A US sub captains number one weapon is stealth, approach your target, shoot, and slip away, preferably undetected. An active sonar 'ping' reveals your location to every submarine and ship in the area, which usually ends badly. A good rule of thumb for command is keep your subs under strict EMCON.

Surface groups have a bunch of options when it comes to radar. Again, stealth is a potent weapon for any commander, and you should attempt to remain undetected for as long as possible. If you happen to have a carrier handy, use whatever AEW(airborne early warning) assets you have before using your ships radar. Launch a hawkeye and move it away from the your ships, then light up the radar. Now you can vector fighters and keep your ships exact location a secret. If missiles are inbound, and their track matches your ship, it's a good idea to switch the radars on.

If you are unlucky and find yourself without a carrier to support you, you still have a number of options. Again, use stealth for as long as possible. Or, try another tactic...detach a ship and move it away from the others, and use that ships radar. Your other ships can remain somewhat hidden and still fire missiles.

If for some reason you have an aversion to being stealthy(I don't recommend it) or if at any time you are detected, you can light up every radar and create a 'bubble' around your ships. The enemy will get a good fix on your position, speed, and bearing, but might not be able to do anything about it.

A lot of it comes down to what you as the commander decide, and no tactic is 100% effective. Get a read on what's going on and adjust accordingly.

Good luck, and good hunting!

[Rudd]

ORIGINAL: Paul Roberts

I'm curious about naval radar and sonar use.

As I understand it, modern navies on alert will use air radar pretty much all the time. They don't want to miss incoming air threats, so they will maximize radar coverage whenever air attack is possible.

What about active sonar? Is this something used all the time or more seldom than radar? Would every ship in a task force run its active sonar, or just the destroyers, or who? Would ASW helicopters be out whenever the task force was on alert, or only when subs had already been reported or suspected in the area?

Obviously, all of this is asking about realistic EMCON settings for game play. What guidelines should I remember for realistic play?

ORIGINAL: jomni

I use them all the time. Except for subs that I want to sneak around.

As far as radars go, play First Contact, 2016 as Norway. After several tries,, for me anyway, it's pretty obvious how to approach the issue(radars on/off) after finally being successful in this scenario.

[El Savior]

According to few naval books task forces could use radar on only for one ship. At least other ships in the task force remain undetected.

Here's also interesting article about Russians ships tracking US Navy movements:
http://iswsyria.blogspot.fi/2013/09/rus ... ments.html

"
Sep
4
Russian Ships Track US Navy Movements
In response to the chemical weapons attack in Damascus on August 21, 2013, the US Navy repositioned a total of five Arleigh Burke Class Destroyers in the Eastern Mediterranean. These ships, carrying the long range Tomahawk Land Attack Missile (TLAM), were located so they would be in position to launch TLAM missiles against Syria, if the order to do so was issued. The movement to firing position did not take long - two days after the chemical weapon attack, four destroyers were already in place, ready to attack. The US Navy was ready, no more than 48 hours after the attack, to respond with long range, precision fires in support of US strategic interests.

DELAY IN STRIKE YIELDS SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN RUSSIAN SURVEILLANCE

In response to the US Navy movements to conduct a Tomahawk Land Attack (TLAM) cruise missile strike against Assad regime targets in Syria, the Russian Navy deployed several ships from its Black Sea Fleet Headquarters of Sevastopol to the Mediterranean. On September 1, the Russian Navy reconnaissance vessel SSV-201 Priazovye departed Sevastopol for the Mediterranean. This picture of the Priazovye shows that it carries a number of active and passive electrical components that can be used to gather intelligence on US Navy ships operating in the area.

© Ilhan Kermen

Although Russian Navy ships in the Mediterranean have limited ability to interfere with US Navy operations, and don’t appear intent on doing so, they do have the ability - especially with the addition of SSV-201 Priazovye - to track US Navy movements, communications, and activities. Russian tracking of US Navy ships in the Mediterranean can be accomplished with both active means, including radar, as well as passive means, primarily signals intelligence.

US NAVY OPERATIONS VULNERABLE TO DETECTION

Even without the presence of Russian Navy ships, US Navy operations are vulnerable to detection. The SPY-1D radar used onboard the US Navy Arleigh Burke class destroyers operating in the Mediterranean has a peak power output of at least 4 Megawatts. Any ship operating a radar system with a peak power output of 4,000,000 watts is going to be visible to the most rudimentary radar receiver, let alone a dedicated, technically capable reconnaissance ship like Priazovye.

Although the US Navy can and does use the tactical procedure of Emissions Control (EMCON) to restrict radar and communications energy output as a means of limiting external situation awareness of US Navy ship movements, in a relatively small waterspace like the Mediterranean it is going to be difficult for the US Navy to conceal ship locations, movements, and activities. This is especially true given that the maximum range of TLAM averages about 1,000 nautical miles, depending on the exact TLAM variant used. In practical terms, this means US Navy ships must be within 1,000 nautical miles of their target when launching TLAM. This means that Russian ships attempting to surveil US Navy ships can limit their search activities to a Weapons Engagement Zone (WEZ) that corresponds to potential TLAM launch points that are within 1000 nautical miles of potential targets in Syria, roughly the eastern third of the Mediterranean. "

[smudge56]

Interesting

[CaptCarnage]

I'd say the correct answer to when you use radar is: when you think you need it.

Do you have other options? Airborne maritime surveillance? Airborne AEW? Land based systems? Consider which option is the wisest to use.

[SSN754planker]

If you have the luxury of AEW assets, by all means use those first and protect them. Use shipborne helicopters and their radar if you don't have dedicated AEW assets. (good tactic is to move them away from your ships, then turn on the radar so the location of your ships is still ambiguous.) Know what you have in your OOB and use everything you have. If youre unsure what a certain plane does, a quick Wikipedia search will help a lot in most cases.