I keep seeing posts that say it needs an AI? What is this all about?

World in Flames is the computer version of Australian Design Group classic board game. World In Flames is a highly detailed game covering the both Europe and Pacific Theaters of Operations during World War II. If you want grand strategy this game is for you.

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Rocko911
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I keep seeing posts that say it needs an AI? What is this all about?

Post by Rocko911 »

Just wanting to know what this means since this game as been in development forever and is expensive to buy.
DSWargamer
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RE: I keep seeing posts that say it needs an AI? What is this all about?

Post by DSWargamer »

It's a board game made into a computer game, that was released without an AI, which is still being worked on, that will arrive later.

So, if you buy it, your choices are play it against yourself (as if it was a board game, which is really what it is), or vs other humans via the internet or a lan too of course, or just all crowed around a single machine.

The computer program can be had in mere minutes, the books though will be coming through the mail. But as the manuals exist as pdf files in the game install, you can always read those as well. Not the same as reading a book naturally. But oh so much nicer than the paper manuals (which I also have).

All the convenience of having the real physical board game, none of the space problems, no cat troubles, no dust covering layer and a unified rules set.

As for expensive, well the current board game is not cheap, but then neither is ASL, or the current evolved form of Third Reich, or Warhammer, or oodles of role games. And if you own all of War in the Pacific and War in the East and soon to be War in the West, well those are hardly free, and don't even have the books.
I have too many too complicated wargames, and not enough sufficiently interested non wargamer friends.
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RE: I keep seeing posts that say it needs an AI? What is this all about?

Post by bo »

ORIGINAL: LRRP

Just wanting to know what this means since this game as been in development forever and is expensive to buy.

Hi LRRP

I am not a player who likes to play solo against myself, never made sense to me. But after learning the interface and nuances of the game I have since changed my mind, this game can be played solo and I tried to show that in the AAR's.

This game is not Strategic Command or Panzer corp [no digs intended I have both games] where very little thinking is needed. Those are games you can dive right into and learn as your going along, I was a beer and pretzel guy all of my computer war game days and probably still am. I like quick fast paced games like COD and WOT because at my age I tend to fall asleep if I have to actually think what am I going to do next to win.

I feel the AI will be difficult for Steve because of all the internal rules the AI will have to deal with. and the 73,000 hexes [:(] I have worked with Steve on this for over a year in a minor way as a beta tester and have gotten to appreciate what he has accomplished transferring the board game to the computer. But a very good AI a soso AI a not so good AI will be better than nothing.

Accept this or not it will take a few weeks before you get familiar with the interface, it may well serve all of us newbies in this game not to rush into netplay, AI etc until we really understand this game, but that is just my opinion and no one elses at this time. I learned by taking my time and playing out each countries moves that I was able to grasp the games mechanics which trully are not easy.

Bo
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Tactics
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RE: I keep seeing posts that say it needs an AI? What is this all about?

Post by Tactics »

So it costs $99, has no AI and you can only play vs. yourself or multiplayer? [&:] Maybe I'm out of the grognard loop, but who the heck thought this pricing/no ai build was a good idea?
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RE: I keep seeing posts that say it needs an AI? What is this all about?

Post by Grotius »

Me? I like playing MWIF solitaire. I'm looking forward to an AI, but I think I'd rather play solitaire.
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RE: I keep seeing posts that say it needs an AI? What is this all about?

Post by Hanal »

Due to work and other commitments, my days of "gaming groups" and live play are but a thing of the past. I'm primarily a solo gamer now until perhaps when I retire or take a dirt nap which ever comes first. This is a game that I want to sink my teeth into even without an AI. Where having the boardgame is impossible for me to set up and much less keep up for months at a time, this pc version is just what I am looking for. Hopefully there will be an AI down the road but for now, I will be more than happy taking my time, learning this system and having a go at it..
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RE: I keep seeing posts that say it needs an AI? What is this all about?

Post by Greyshaft »

ORIGINAL: J P Falcon

Due to work and other commitments, my days of "gaming groups" and live play are but a thing of the past. I'm primarily a solo gamer now until perhaps when I retire or take a dirt nap which ever comes first. This is a game that I want to sink my teeth into even without an AI. Where having the boardgame is impossible for me to set up and much less keep up for months at a time, this pc version is just what I am looking for. Hopefully there will be an AI down the road but for now, I will be more than happy taking my time, learning this system and having a go at it..
+1
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RE: I keep seeing posts that say it needs an AI? What is this all about?

Post by FroBodine »

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

ORIGINAL: J P Falcon

Due to work and other commitments, my days of "gaming groups" and live play are but a thing of the past. I'm primarily a solo gamer now until perhaps when I retire or take a dirt nap which ever comes first. This is a game that I want to sink my teeth into even without an AI. Where having the boardgame is impossible for me to set up and much less keep up for months at a time, this pc version is just what I am looking for. Hopefully there will be an AI down the road but for now, I will be more than happy taking my time, learning this system and having a go at it..
+1

+2

As others have said, it is cat friendly. I have no cats, because I am majorly allergic to them, but I have a three year old daughter and limited space. This game eliminates all those problems, cats, kids, wives complaining about game clutter, etc.

It's brilliant!
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RE: I keep seeing posts that say it needs an AI? What is this all about?

Post by Rocko911 »

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: LRRP

Just wanting to know what this means since this game as been in development forever and is expensive to buy.

Hi LRRP

I am one of the beta testers here and I insisted on an AI before the game was released, only because I felt it would damage the reputation of the board and computer game without it. I am not a player who likes to play solo against myself, never made sense to me. But after learning the interface and nuances of the game I have since changed my mind, this game can be played solo and I tried to show that in the AAR's.

This game is not Strategic Command or Panzer corp [no digs intended I have both games] where very little thinking is needed. Those are games you can dive right into and learn as your going along, I was a beer and pretzel guy all of my computer war game days and probably still am. I like quick fast paced games like COD and WOT because at my age I tend to fall asleep if I have to actually think what am I going to do next to win.

I feel the AI will be difficult for Steve because of all the internal rules the AI will have to deal with. and the 73,000 hexes [:(] I have worked with Steve on this for over a year in a minor way as a beta tester and have gotten to appreciate what he has accomplished transferring the board game to the computer. But a very good AI a soso AI a not so good AI will be better than nothing.

Accept this or not it will take a few weeks before you get familiar with the interface, it may well serve all of us newbies in this game not to rush into netplay, AI etc until we really understand this game, but that is just my opinion and no one elses at this time. I learned by taking my time and playing out each countries moves that I was able to grasp the games mechanics which trully are not easy.

Bo

See I disagree about Strategic Command, I find that you do have to put a lot of thought into playing the game and the AI is very good.
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RE: I keep seeing posts that say it needs an AI? What is this all about?

Post by bo »

Ok you disagree with me on Srategic command and thats okay, that is what the forums are for, the reason SC sits on my shelf is because of its AI, adequate only IMO easily defeated, but again not a dig against them good AI's are really hard to do. The AI is decent in the European theater but not in the Pacific theater. Hubert is a decent programer and is a nice person to deal with but it is still a beer and pretzel game.

Bo
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RE: I keep seeing posts that say it needs an AI? What is this all about?

Post by Kitakami »

ORIGINAL: Tactics

So it costs $99, has no AI and you can only play vs. yourself or multiplayer? [&:] Maybe I'm out of the grognard loop, but who the heck thought this pricing/no ai build was a good idea?

Well... divide $ 99 by the number of hours you will invest into the game, and you will get very good bang for the buck. I have not bought the game yet (waiting for an electronic-only version as I don't live in the US nor Europe, and S&H plus import tariffs would take it beyond my comfort zone), but I owned the tabletop version, and the game is a serious investment in time. Not for the faint of heart, and definitely not a beer & pretzels game, but it is very much worth it.

As for the lack of AI, I did some AI studies in college, a long time ago. To have something resembling a half-decent human opponent, you need to have some serious programming behind it. My deepest respect for just attempting it in WiF! For me, it will be multiplayer, most probably.

Also, my experience with Matrix's updates and support after release is extraordinary. I play WitP-AE, and slowly but surely it is being tweaked into an excellent game engine. I am sure the same will hold true for WiF, even if it takes years to accomplish.

Just my 2 cents... your mileage might vary :)
Tenno Heika Banzai!
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RE: I keep seeing posts that say it needs an AI? What is this all about?

Post by philturco »

I have been looking for a game that is sort of a super version of Gary Grigsby's "A World Divided" A WWII game that's global and includes the economic side so for example an axis commander can decide what service...army,navy or air he wished to build up..Is this the game?
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RE: I keep seeing posts that say it needs an AI? What is this all about?

Post by jerrystead »

Let's also put this into perspective:
Most boardgames are already available without AI's on VASSAL, for FREE!
Keep that in mind before you purchase this one for $100.
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RE: I keep seeing posts that say it needs an AI? What is this all about?

Post by 76mm »

Most boardgames are already available without AI's on VASSAL, for FREE!
er, yeah, but as far as I know you are also supposed to buy the boardgame to play with VASSAL. And moreover you can't build in very complex rules in VASSAL, or even have the computer count movement costs, etc.
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RE: I keep seeing posts that say it needs an AI? What is this all about?

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

ORIGINAL: Bibbo

I have been looking for a game that is sort of a super version of Gary Grigsby's "A World Divided" A WWII game that's global and includes the economic side so for example an axis commander can decide what service...army,navy or air he wished to build up..Is this the game?
Yes. I might be biased.[;)]

I agreed to take on this project (foolish me) for two reasons: (1) it's the best war game simulation of WW II involving all branches of the service with production and the major political events of the war, and (2) I wanted to write the AI Opponent code. Next year I get to work on the latter full time.

See the Seven Moments of Wow thread at the top of this forum to gain an overview of what the game covers. For example, #6 lists the US Entry Actions and US Entry Options.
Steve

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RE: I keep seeing posts that say it needs an AI? What is this all about?

Post by bairdlander2 »

ORIGINAL: Bibbo

I have been looking for a game that is sort of a super version of Gary Grigsby's "A World Divided" A WWII game that's global and includes the economic side so for example an axis commander can decide what service...army,navy or air he wished to build up..Is this the game?
No This is more like ATR
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RE: I keep seeing posts that say it needs an AI? What is this all about?

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

ORIGINAL: 76mm
Most boardgames are already available without AI's on VASSAL, for FREE!
er, yeah, but as far as I know you are also supposed to buy the boardgame to play with VASSAL. And moreover you can't build in very complex rules in VASSAL, or even have the computer count movement costs, etc.
As I understand it, the cost for the board game, if you purchase all the add-ons that are included as part of MWIF, is more than the cost of MWIF.
Steve

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RE: I keep seeing posts that say it needs an AI? What is this all about?

Post by Neilster »

ORIGINAL: Bibbo

I have been looking for a game that is sort of a super version of Gary Grigsby's "A World Divided" A WWII game that's global and includes the economic side so for example an axis commander can decide what service...army,navy or air he wished to build up..Is this the game?
IMHO yes. As Steve said, check out the Seven Moments of Wow thread.

Cheers, Neilster
Cheers, Neilster
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RE: I keep seeing posts that say it needs an AI? What is this all about?

Post by yvesp »

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
As I understand it, the cost for the board game, if you purchase all the add-ons that are included as part of MWIF, is more than the cost of MWIF.

I agree that the cost of all expensions far surpasses that of MWIF. On the other hand, it would be a shame if it were the contrary, considering there is no printing cost involved!

Overall, buying this computer version is akin to buying the boardagame with most add-ons included. It has two drawbacks:
* it's not physical, so it doesn't have exactly the same feeling that touching real cute counters
* your vision of the theater of war is limited to what your monitor will show (the bigger your monitor, the better.)

It has also a lot of advantages:
* you can fold your game at any time, without being afraid that your two years old will comme around amd mess up everything
* you don't have to devote a 10 square meter room as a war room (some wives do object)
* the game ensures that everything you do is legal ; and believe me, the complexity of the rules are such that even veteran players are sometimes playing against the rules
* you don't have to find ways to intelligently store up the thousands of counters when the game if finished, so that you don't lose three or four hours just to delve through them when you start a new game ; actually, you will even be able to jump direct into a new game after having saved your favorite setups (something I always dreamed about with the boardgame!)
* you won't accidentally lose any counter...
* you can even fold your game and take it with you! you could play in the pubic transports, on holidays or whatever... Try this with the boardgame...

After that, it's your choice to see what you prefer.
I did post someday that I wouldn't buy the game without AI. Still, I was one of the first to buy it right now, if only for all these advantages.

Buying this game at this point in time is akin to buying a boardgame. In one or two years from now, we may expect a decent AI, which will turn it into a full computer game.

Yves
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Omnius
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No Need for Artificial Ignorance

Post by Omnius »

There's no need for Artificial Ignorance in World in Flames. While I find it nice to have an AI to watch when first going into a new game to see what's up I find that an Artificial Ignorance is never worth playing against. Rejoice that WiF is finally out without an AI to foul up play or distract players from learning how to play each country well. I found the tutorials very helpful in learning how to use the interface and different aspects of playing the game.

Happy Veteran's Day fellow Vets!

Omnius
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