How powerful are the Household Cavalry Armoured Cars?

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skarp
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How powerful are the Household Cavalry Armoured Cars?

Post by skarp »

Hi

I mentioned this problem in the thread on Axis armour can't shoot because it may be a related issue but since that thread had moved on I hope folk will forgive me for posting a recapitulation and update here.

My SS troops are defending Nijmegen and have been attacked at night in fog by the Armour cars of A and B squadrons 2 Household Cavalry operating in two separate areas. B squadron has been in combat with stug III, JgPZ IVs, Pak 75 an plus a couple of SS infantry coys from the recon battalion. Some were even entrenched but it didn't prevent the British armoured cars from forcing a retreat. 6 hours later even though I forced it out of the city and it's now daylight (heavy fog) the armoured cars are merrily exchanging fire with 3 or 4 well armed units and apparently have suffered no loss. It's counterpart A 2 HC has battered its way through one entrenched SS infantry coy and has been closely engaged by 3 others for several hours again apparently without loss - 25 vehicles left.

Is there some bug where some small vehicles are nearly impossible to destroy? In comparison elsewhere I've lost entrenched Tigers!

Secondly I noticed the average anti-armour value per vehicle(according to my intel dividing anti-armour by number of vehicles) is about 7.5. My Tiger I's anti-armour value is only 9.66 and the MkIIIs are 9.66 too! Small wonder the armoured cars managed to knock at a JgPZ IV!

Can someone check this out please?
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simovitch
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RE: How powerful are the Household Cavalry Armoured Cars?

Post by simovitch »

I've recently noticed the same thing against some US armored cars. Further, take away their fuel so they cant move and they become very hard to spot even in daylight a few hundred meters away in the open. This makes them even more invulnerable.

Not sure about the anti-armor values yet. I'll keep an eye out.

Adding this to the laundry list of things for Panther Games to look at. Hopefully it won't be too long.
simovitch

skarp
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RE: How powerful are the Household Cavalry Armoured Cars?

Post by skarp »

thanks Simovitch glad it will be looked at. I know Panther is a small operation. I'm not well at present and have free time and a history degree and some lower level coding qualifications so I can help check stuff if desired. Please pm me if you want to know more.
skarp
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RE: How powerful are the Household Cavalry Armoured Cars?

Post by skarp »

I just had two coys SS infantry over run one of them. They sat on top of the armoured cars and after a while the armoured cars retreated without a scratch.
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simovitch
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RE: How powerful are the Household Cavalry Armoured Cars?

Post by simovitch »

ORIGINAL: skarp

I just had two coys SS infantry over run one of them. They sat on top of the armoured cars and after a while the armoured cars retreated without a scratch.
How can you tell the cars were not hit? what was your intel on that unit?
simovitch

skarp
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RE: How powerful are the Household Cavalry Armoured Cars?

Post by skarp »

Intel was and is excellent. It's still in contact. The other armoured car mentioned is not doing so well - it's been in and out of contact and it looks like I scored a hit (intel level good).
skarp
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RE: How powerful are the Household Cavalry Armoured Cars?

Post by skarp »

I thought I'd better do some more investigation. I customised Joe's bridge by removing all allied units except A Squadron 2Household cavalry which I placed in a open location and all the initial axis forces (I didn't know there were reinforcements) and put in a unit of 10 pz iv/70. Deleted all objectives and added a new one for each close to both units in the open. I then played it as allies and won.

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skarp
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RE: How powerful are the Household Cavalry Armoured Cars?

Post by skarp »

then I removed the axis reinforcements and won even more easily

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skarp
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RE: How powerful are the Household Cavalry Armoured Cars?

Post by skarp »

I then changed the axis coy to 11 panthers

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Deathtreader
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RE: How powerful are the Household Cavalry Armoured Cars?

Post by Deathtreader »




[X(][X(][X(][X(]

Definitely needs to be looked at by the DEV team!!

I wonder if this behaviour is tied to the AXIS CAN't SHOOT thread reported behaviour somehow. Like 2 different sides of the same coin so to speak.

Rob.
So we're at war with the Russkies eh?? I suppose we really ought to invade or something. (Lonnnng pause while studying the map)
Hmmmm... big place ain't it??
- Sir Harry Flashman (1854)
skarp
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RE: How powerful are the Household Cavalry Armoured Cars?

Post by skarp »

possibly - I've just swapped the armoured cars for shermans.



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skarp
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RE: How powerful are the Household Cavalry Armoured Cars?

Post by skarp »

to even things up I took away the fireflies. The axis tactics were a bit daft though I will play again as axis

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skarp
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RE: How powerful are the Household Cavalry Armoured Cars?

Post by skarp »

got a win playing as axis despite the AI having fireflies this time and the odd air strike. Still inflicted fewer casualties than I suffered. The shermans were hard to spot which defeated my intention to stand off out of their effective range and pick them off.

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skarp
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RE: How powerful are the Household Cavalry Armoured Cars?

Post by skarp »

Going back to the original test scenario - jdpz plus reinforcements v A sqn 2 household cav - i thought if I replaced them with Shermans we'll see how well they can hold compared to armoured cars. Well I played it 4 times now as allies and every time the shermans have been rapidly trounced by the jgpzs once some more backup arrives and then the game crashes for some reason when the last sherman gets hit. I managed to get a screen though just before it crashed.

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simovitch
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RE: How powerful are the Household Cavalry Armoured Cars?

Post by simovitch »

Those airstrikes will skew your analysis, why not take them out of the test scenario? Also, I'm finding that having plentiful ammo in the racks will dramatically improve the Germans ability to hold off the attackers. Make sure both sides have equivalent ammo supply. in BFTB and HTTR the Germans suffer from poor ammo supply.

Also, the Armored cars in the HHC are not bad vehicles; those AEC has a 75mm gun on it.

Something is a little fishy though with the allied AC's, I'm still looking into it from the data side.

Thanks for your testing efforts skarp.[:)]

simovitch

skarp
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RE: How powerful are the Household Cavalry Armoured Cars?

Post by skarp »

Well as Allies I didn't call in the airstrikes and I didn't notice the Axis had any. I hadn't worked out how to remove them anyway.

The initial anti-armour value of A squadron 2 HC is 300! Well in excess of a coy of panthers.

There's only 2 75mm armoured cars in the squadron, I believe. I will try removing them next and see what difference it makes.

When I did play axis I didn't notice any lack of ammo.

Thanks
skarp
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RE: How powerful are the Household Cavalry Armoured Cars?

Post by skarp »

Ok I removed the airstrikes. And the 2 75mm armoured cars. That reduced the anti-armour value to 266 which judging by the values for tiger I above is way over. As it happens they came back when I played as Axis but they were not there on this game as allies. Neither side has any supply and the allies ran out of ammo. So the allies lost but not that badly - remember the Shermans were wiped out by the same force within a few hours.

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skarp
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RE: How powerful are the Household Cavalry Armoured Cars?

Post by skarp »

I then gave the 75mm ACs back to the HHC and put on a supply base for each side. Result this time a draw

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skarp
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RE: How powerful are the Household Cavalry Armoured Cars?

Post by skarp »

took the 75mm away and lost but not that badly - remember this AC is heavily outnumbered but still destroyed all but 4 jgpz ivs

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vandorenp
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RE: How powerful are the Household Cavalry Armoured Cars?

Post by vandorenp »

I wonder what the results would be if each side was equipped with the other sides equipment?
with identical equipment?
with identical unit and leadership characteristics (training etc.)settings?

I don't have time to run such myself. Sorry.
Keydet
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