Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Q-Ball (A)

Post descriptions of your brilliant victories and unfortunate defeats here.

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obvert
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by obvert »

Wow. Sorry Nic. That is tough with the reaction. I do hate that 'feature.'

Are your LBA bases nearby still active to help support the retreat? It's a tough spot as big bases are far away.

Good luck in the next turn.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
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PaxMondo
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by PaxMondo »

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

So guys, the time has come. The KB has finally failed. At the 5th Carrier engagement of the war, the allies finally managed to take the upper hand. Luck, flak and radar were all on their side this time.


I wouldn't go that far, rather to say the odds fiinally caught up with you and you were seriously out mtached. Given that, the KB did not fail, it did the best it could in the circumstances.
ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

During the morning severe storms obscured both fleets, but when the afternoon arrived, my search planes spotted them and my admirals (Nagumo, Yamaguchi and Abe) decided to react towards the enemy,
leaving all the BBs and CAs back...so abbandoning the flak cover...
The enemy reacted too and we anded up pretty close to each other...
The Mother of all instigators, reaction. Nimitz greatly feared the entire DEI area as there was insufficient sea room for his carriers and would not commit them. Every time this happens in a game, I remember this and think "Dang, that guy really understood his weapon platforms" [&o] Your outcome here isn't as bad as the classic with CF, but his happened in '42 IIRC.

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
Another thing that changed the outcome was that my stupid generals decided to attack first a CVETF 3 hexes east of the American CVs... We sunk 5 or 6 of them, but our major punch
lost its unity...and when it was time to attack the real target (CVs) we were badly outnumbered...

Not stupid, just FOW. 6x CVE even in RL could easily have been mistaken as a major strike force by the recon of the era.

[/quote]
So in summary, you took a bit of a gamble to snipe at the allies. Your guess was off as to exactly where they would end up and this was closer than you thought, caused everyone to react and create a pisspot. You're likely to lose 1x CV and 5xCVL (I count Jonyo as a CVL as she isn't all that big). The allies lost 6xCVE, 2xCV. So about even losses. Of course, allies will make this trade every day, but considering the odds you did REALLY good.

What did you learn? Well, nothing much more than you already knew. The A6M did far better than I would have imagined. You only lost 20% of your strike package on the way in, very acceptable losses. But as you noted, the strike got completely disorganized and came in dribbles which really hurt accuracy. Out of +225 bombers you got only 19 hits. Ouch.

On Defense, the A6M performed to expectations: lousy. Outnumbering the allied fighters 3:1, they still could not do the job. Out of 240 bombers, +180 made their attack getting 28 hits. They weren't as dispersed and so had better accuracy.

Where your luck held was that this happened in the afternoon. If this had been the morning phase, it would have been MUCH worse as the afternoon phase attack would have really hit you hard. As it is, with moderate luck and some LBA fighters you should be able to escape without more losses.

Not that bad really, all things considered. You ended up toe-2-toe in '44 with the allies and manged a tactical draw. Far better than the odds would suggest and far better than ever achieved historically.

Pax
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Cap Mandrake
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by Cap Mandrake »

Dang! 240 bombers in one strike group. Can you imagine that?

I wonder if anyone caught that on their cell phone?
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Cap Mandrake
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by Cap Mandrake »

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

You still put up heck of a fight. [:)] And you have delayed him in almost the exact same place for over a year now? No reason the hang with you head. You played masterfully! [&o]


Yes, exactly! Fantastic defense.
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Crackaces
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by Crackaces »

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Dang! 240 bombers in one strike group. Can you imagine that?

I wonder if anyone caught that on their cell phone?

I do wonder if Greyjoy's strikes failed a die roll due to strike size and thus came in disorganized? While the Allies passed their die roll?
"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"
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GreyJoy
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

So guys, the time has come. The KB has finally failed. At the 5th Carrier engagement of the war, the allies finally managed to take the upper hand. Luck, flak and radar were all on their side this time.


I wouldn't go that far, rather to say the odds fiinally caught up with you and you were seriously out mtached. Given that, the KB did not fail, it did the best it could in the circumstances.
ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

During the morning severe storms obscured both fleets, but when the afternoon arrived, my search planes spotted them and my admirals (Nagumo, Yamaguchi and Abe) decided to react towards the enemy,
leaving all the BBs and CAs back...so abbandoning the flak cover...
The enemy reacted too and we anded up pretty close to each other...
The Mother of all instigators, reaction. Nimitz greatly feared the entire DEI area as there was insufficient sea room for his carriers and would not commit them. Every time this happens in a game, I remember this and think "Dang, that guy really understood his weapon platforms" [&o] Your outcome here isn't as bad as the classic with CF, but his happened in '42 IIRC.

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
Another thing that changed the outcome was that my stupid generals decided to attack first a CVETF 3 hexes east of the American CVs... We sunk 5 or 6 of them, but our major punch
lost its unity...and when it was time to attack the real target (CVs) we were badly outnumbered...

Not stupid, just FOW. 6x CVE even in RL could easily have been mistaken as a major strike force by the recon of the era.
So in summary, you took a bit of a gamble to snipe at the allies. Your guess was off as to exactly where they would end up and this was closer than you thought, caused everyone to react and create a pisspot. You're likely to lose 1x CV and 5xCVL (I count Jonyo as a CVL as she isn't all that big). The allies lost 6xCVE, 2xCV. So about even losses. Of course, allies will make this trade every day, but considering the odds you did REALLY good.

What did you learn? Well, nothing much more than you already knew. The A6M did far better than I would have imagined. You only lost 20% of your strike package on the way in, very acceptable losses. But as you noted, the strike got completely disorganized and came in dribbles which really hurt accuracy. Out of +225 bombers you got only 19 hits. Ouch.

On Defense, the A6M performed to expectations: lousy. Outnumbering the allied fighters 3:1, they still could not do the job. Out of 240 bombers, +180 made their attack getting 28 hits. They weren't as dispersed and so had better accuracy.

Where your luck held was that this happened in the afternoon. If this had been the morning phase, it would have been MUCH worse as the afternoon phase attack would have really hit you hard. As it is, with moderate luck and some LBA fighters you should be able to escape without more losses.

Not that bad really, all things considered. You ended up toe-2-toe in '44 with the allies and manged a tactical draw. Far better than the odds would suggest and far better than ever achieved historically.


[/quote]


Thanks for the kind words Pax (and all of you too guys).
I'm not that sad for the outcome. I knew this day could have arrived, sooner or later. We managed to win 4 out of 5 carrier engagements in this war, even if none of them was really decisive as they could have been, i think the Japanese Navy performed well, everything considered.
The real factor here has been the flak. Believe me. In 1944, with DBB, the allied flak is decisive! Much more than the Hellcat. It's the flak who made my bombers score so few hits.


So now, what's next?
I need to save as many CVs as possible...but as Obvert said, it will be a risky run...and even if we manage to save them, the allies will have free time to advance towards Mindanao without the KB's threat...
I now need to speed up my defences in the PI...All the float planes will be commissioned to pick up infantry units from frontline bases and i'm also considering abbandoning Burma...it's pointless to defend so forward there while the allies are knocking my door in the PI...

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GreyJoy
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

You still put up heck of a fight. [:)] And you have delayed him in almost the exact same place for over a year now? No reason the hang with you head. You played masterfully! [&o]


Yes, exactly! Fantastic defense.


Thanks! but i don't think it's over yet[:'(]. They still have to face my second defensive line and our air army is still strong. We've now lost (strategically) Timor and Ambon-Boela (all bypassed), but there's still a long long way to Japan.


Supplies will be a problem, but the Emperor has ordered to fight till the yakees are estabilished in the Imperial Palace...so we're gonna fight till the very very end!

BANZAI!!!
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GreyJoy
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Dang! 240 bombers in one strike group. Can you imagine that?

I wonder if anyone caught that on their cell phone?

I do wonder if Greyjoy's strikes failed a die roll due to strike size and thus came in disorganized? While the Allies passed their die roll?


mmm... don't think so. The roll failed on both sides cause we did have a lot of isolated packages attacking (didn't post them). The two major strikes were, however, very effective on both sides. Simply this time weather was better for Brad than me and i did have just one BB with me to absorbe some torpedoes/bombs.

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Symon
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by Symon »

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
ORIGINAL: JocMeister
You still put up heck of a fight. [:)] And you have delayed him in almost the exact same place for over a year now? No reason the hang with you head. You played masterfully! [&o]
Thanks! but i don't think it's over yet[:'(]. They still have to face my second defensive line and our air army is still strong. We've now lost (strategically) Timor and Ambon-Boela (all bypassed), but there's still a long long way to Japan.

Supplies will be a problem, but the Emperor has ordered to fight till the yakees are estabilished in the Imperial Palace...so we're gonna fight till the very very end!

BANZAI!!!
I quite agree with JocMeister. You have played masterfully. Q-Ball is no tyro and you guys have traded (and absorbed) blows like the professionals.

Take the hits, but figure out what to do with what's left and go on. Can't begin to say how much I'm enjoying this game between the two of you. You both play the game like it was intended. I'm usually on the edge of my seat reading ya'lls AARs. Thought, planning, understanding of "calculated risk", execution within the plan, what you guys have done so far is frikkin epic.[&o][&o][&o]

I'll put this on Q-Ball's thread, too.

Ciao. JWE
Nous n'avons pas peur! Vive la liberté! Moi aussi je suis Charlie!
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GreyJoy
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: Symon

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
ORIGINAL: JocMeister
You still put up heck of a fight. [:)] And you have delayed him in almost the exact same place for over a year now? No reason the hang with you head. You played masterfully! [&o]
Thanks! but i don't think it's over yet[:'(]. They still have to face my second defensive line and our air army is still strong. We've now lost (strategically) Timor and Ambon-Boela (all bypassed), but there's still a long long way to Japan.

Supplies will be a problem, but the Emperor has ordered to fight till the yakees are estabilished in the Imperial Palace...so we're gonna fight till the very very end!

BANZAI!!!
I quite agree with JocMeister. You have played masterfully. Q-Ball is no tyro and you guys have traded (and absorbed) blows like the professionals.

Take the hits, but figure out what to do with what's left and go on. Can't begin to say how much I'm enjoying this game between the two of you. You both play the game like it was intended. I'm usually on the edge of my seat reading ya'lls AARs. Thought, planning, understanding of "calculated risk", execution within the plan, what you guys have done so far is frikkin epic.[&o][&o][&o]

I'll put this on Q-Ball's thread, too.

Ciao. JWE


Wow, Thanks JWE!
The quality of my AAR has decreased unfortunately...too little time lately to write it down as it should deserve. I wish i could be as good as Obvert in making the posts...

However thanks! We both have done some great things, but also some serious mistakes were made on both parts. Can't say how much i like the DBB mod. The flak for example... now it's a factor, both for Japs and for the allies. Land flak and naval flak, they both work perfectly imho, giving a great experience, much more realistic than in stock.

The good thing for me, so far, is that QBall managed to advance on just one front. The CENTPAC is still closed for him, with Sarmi still holding as if they were devils!
In Burma, even if we lost Akyab and now are ready to lose Ramree, we're still keeping them off from the plains. The oil production of Borneo and Sumatra should remain intact for some more months hopefully
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obvert
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by obvert »

I even see the flak improvements that michaelm has put in the betas (from DDB I guess) working nearly as well as the Babes mods that I've seen. If I get only one package through to attack it's not enough as the flak rips them apart, even just attacking a CL/DD TF, let alone CV/BB.

You guys are having an epic match, and it's a test of will too. So easy to get down after a difficult turn, and you're showing already the kind of determination that will serve you well in late 44-45 when there is nothing but bad news. It does get bleak, I can testify, but there are some fun moments left and it's always a challenge.

I agree it's time to think of a measured retreat. Think though of how you can stall him while you're moving back, so it doesn't turn into a rout. I guess stacking limits will help in this.

Also, about supply, think about ways to conserve now as it won't get better, especially once he gets to bomb you industry.

Looking forward to seeing this go all of the way!
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
buutsy
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by buutsy »

Great AAR here, following it from the beginning !
Always asked myself if Stacking Limits isn´t too much in favour for the Allies because of the much much better firepower their troops have in the endgame .
Or am i´m getting something wrong here ? [8|]
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GreyJoy
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: buutsy

Great AAR here, following it from the beginning !
Always asked myself if Stacking Limits isn´t too much in favour for the Allies because of the much much better firepower their troops have in the endgame .
Or am i´m getting something wrong here ? [8|]


No, i don't think so mate. The firepower is an issue, obviously, but consider that the defender has the terrain and the forts on his side, so it's a fair trade IMHO
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by nashvillen »

When I saw the pictures on the other "AAR" that was to be disregarded, my first thought was, wow, great carrier package and battle. Then, I see the results of the Allied flak, and it is still a great carrier package, just decreased in effectiveness by the allied flak.

It appears you have positioned yourself well. It is all you can do, sometimes technology overrules that. Don't get down over it. As a lurker, I have enjoyed popping in occasionally and see how this is going and am really interested in your latter half of the war on the defense.

Can't stress enough the stockpiling of fuel and supplies! It is so critical as you leave 1944 into 1945 when the fuel and oil are cut off.
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Cribtop
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by Cribtop »

Bummer but inevitable in the long run for Japan. Q really uses the large feints well. Hard to tell when and where he's bluffing. Also, just as in poker, the deadliest hand is when the other guy thinks you're bluffing, but you actually have the cards. Fight on!
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by Lokasenna »

That's not a bad final trade at all. He lost 5 CVEs, 2 CVs, and probably a CVL? That's nontrivial, though unfortunately you don't have the capability to meet him head to head again. Maybe you can pull a Leyte Gulf on him and lure his CVs away from the rest [;)]. Maybe with kamis?
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Barb
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by Barb »

Always look on the bright side of life... you have less fuel/oil to burn by ships, and more to haul up to Japan while you can [;)]

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obvert
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by obvert »

ORIGINAL: Barb

Always look on the bright side of life... you have less fuel/oil to burn by ships, and more to haul up to Japan while you can [;)]

+1

[:D]
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GreyJoy
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by GreyJoy »

Feb 21, 1944
 
The day begun with the worst message: sub contact. Junyo. 46 miles east of Kendari.
The Junyo is making 4 or 5 knots...no way to avoid the torpedoes. 3 of them struk the poor ship, bringing down beneath the waves the carrier, along with the 3 air groups stuck aboard her.
The Katzuragi managed to made to Makassar. Still burning furiously. She's 99% a goner but i'll try to save her if I can. The rest of the KB...what is left of the KB is divided between Makassar and Kendari, covered by the surface vessels.
The allies didn't try to follow me. They remain there, covering the Namlea landings, which went unopposed. No sign of any enemy flaptop sunk... think he saved both CVs and the CVLs....[:(]
Well, not much I can do right now. I'll keep the undamaged CVs togheder in the combat area and will withdraw the damaged ones to the HI... I'll have to place them pretty back, thus leaving Kendari very exposed. Think Kendari will be under air siege within a couple of weeks with all those airfields building up in the proximity. I'll do my best to keep it open as long as possible, cause it's being used to haul troops with transports (both planes and barges) from Timor area in order to save as much as possible and re-allocate them.
At Biak my CAP is heavily engaged against 100 P-47s from Kaimana... those bastards obtained a 3-1 with their strato-sweep and I lose a good 70 fighters over Biak (KI-84r, N1K1s and 2s, J2M3s and KI-44cs)... even with layered CAP, plenty of air support, radars and skillfull pilots, the P-47s seems to be unbeatable for me.
 
No attacks at Ramree Is. or Sarmi this turn.
We managed to repulse the first attack at Namlea...but we suffered 3 times the casualities of the Marines... Ambon will be isolated in a couple of turns. However I've already rescued from there a Mixed Bde, an Air HQ (only the Air support actually) and some base forces... not bad. Same for Boela, where I managed to rescue an air Army HQ with 144 air support!
 
Constant air bombings over Timor, Ambon, Boela, Sarmi etc... it's a pain to see all my planes grounded and my fields closed...but I really can't do much about it right now.
 
 
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GreyJoy
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: nashvillen

When I saw the pictures on the other "AAR" that was to be disregarded, my first thought was, wow, great carrier package and battle. Then, I see the results of the Allied flak, and it is still a great carrier package, just decreased in effectiveness by the allied flak.

It appears you have positioned yourself well. It is all you can do, sometimes technology overrules that. Don't get down over it. As a lurker, I have enjoyed popping in occasionally and see how this is going and am really interested in your latter half of the war on the defense.

Can't stress enough the stockpiling of fuel and supplies! It is so critical as you leave 1944 into 1945 when the fuel and oil are cut off.

I'm doing my best to haul fuel to Japan... but the supply problem is what is and will really hurt me. I produce too few supplies. Plain and simple. And the strat bombing campaign hasn't started yet... 25,000 supplies per turn is really too few...without the refineries it's really tough to get enough of it.

But I'm not that sad, really. I was prepared for this moment. I knew it would have come. It's fair, really. Brad has been on the receiving side for what concerns carrier engagements for 2 full years and even if he got pretty lucky in a couple of occasions (where he could have lost the whole lot of CVs), he hasn't been any lucky in damaging my own CVs... so I think this was a good trade off.
It's been fun. Now it will come the hardest part...as i'm learning from Obvert-Joc's game.... but that's all about playing Japan: you need to be ready when the tide turns[:D]
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