Questions re A Time to Dance *SPOILERS*

The new Cold War turned hot wargame from On Target Simulations, now expanded with the Player's Edition! Choose the NATO or Soviet forces in one of many scenarios or two linked campaigns. No effort was spared to model modern warfare realistically, including armor, infantry, helicopters, air support, artillery, electronic warfare, chemical and nuclear weapons. An innovative new asynchronous turn order means that OODA loops and various effects on C3 are accurately modeled as never before.

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76mm
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Questions re A Time to Dance *SPOILERS*

Post by 76mm »

I've played this scenario a couple of times now as WP and haven't gotten better than a contested battle, and don't really see myself doing better without doing something very different. A couple of questions:

1) I've tried massing my forces on in scenario and spreading them out in another; both approaches ended with massive casualties (~60%).

2) I've tried leaving t80s in overwatch, but they get slaughtered by the M1s, which are very difficult to kill with direct fire.

3) I tried using indirect fire alot, but generally there no US targets visible during my turn, and if they are visible, they move within minutes of the turn beginning on a regular basis, so firing at them is generally a waste of time.

4) What order should I use to get my units to move around as often as the US units in this scenario? I played as US side once but they didn't seem to move hardly at all. When I play as WP, the US units seem to move and fire autonomously several times per turn??

5) I can't tell from the map which river hexsides are crossable by my armored vehicles. I think there's one intact bridge in the middle of the map, but otherwise all of the bridges seem to be destroyed and I'm not sure how my tanks/bmps are crossing, or how I can tell where they can cross. What am I missing?

Looking forward to getting some tips...
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RE: Questions re A Time to Dance *SPOILERS*

Post by loki100 »

some views:

the big thing I've learnt in this scenario is to keep the MRR out of combat if you can. They are free VPs for the M1s.

I tend to use the tank regiments as two groups and keep them close. One regiment I tend to send over the middle where there is usually a bridge, the other via the town to the north (forget the name). Anything can build a bridge in 30 mins, just leave it in place.

I think NATO human players don't use the screen order enough, you sort of want to control the ground, the AI uses screen and gets all the benefits of shoot and scoot.

With the Soviet artillery, but one battery on call and the other on CB. Once you feel you have seriously reduced the NATO artillery fire, both on call. I find in the more fluid scenarios, on-call is now my default mission. Bit like 'screen', trust the tactical AI and it will make good decisions for you in turn.

If you keep the two tank regiments together (as above) you will often get 3-4 companies able to fire at any time. That is deadly for the MIs, get lucky and you can take out a platoon. Keep moving in a very tight pattern (you want mass combats, NATO wants 1-1 firefights).

I put a brief end game report in the AAR section using the above, I think I got a score in the low 70s.

In general with the Soviets, you want to get in close - a long range tank exchange is playing the war that NATO really wanted to fight.
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76mm
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RE: Questions re A Time to Dance *SPOILERS*

Post by 76mm »

Thanks for the reply, I hadn't thought of looking at the AAR section!

I didn't use CB because I didn't really notice that NATO artillery was causing me any significant problem, but I should probably go back and check the end-game screens.

Good idea about the MRR, mine got slaughtered as it was trying to cross the river, would have been better to keep them out of harm's way.
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RE: Questions re A Time to Dance *SPOILERS*

Post by CapnDarwin »

Another thing to rememberis even if the artillery fails to kill units it still impacts the readiness of the target.
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RE: Questions re A Time to Dance *SPOILERS*

Post by stormbringer3 »

When I played as the Soviet, I had my forces move up, place units along the river, build a lot of bridges and then cross after they were built.
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RE: Questions re A Time to Dance *SPOILERS*

Post by nukkxx5058 »

ORIGINAL: 76mm

I've played this scenario a couple of times now as WP and haven't gotten better than a contested battle, and don't really see myself doing better without doing something very different. A couple of questions:

1) I've tried massing my forces on in scenario and spreading them out in another; both approaches ended with massive casualties (~60%).

2) I've tried leaving t80s in overwatch, but they get slaughtered by the M1s, which are very difficult to kill with direct fire.

3) I tried using indirect fire alot, but generally there no US targets visible during my turn, and if they are visible, they move within minutes of the turn beginning on a regular basis, so firing at them is generally a waste of time.

4) What order should I use to get my units to move around as often as the US units in this scenario? I played as US side once but they didn't seem to move hardly at all. When I play as WP, the US units seem to move and fire autonomously several times per turn??

5) I can't tell from the map which river hexsides are crossable by my armored vehicles. I think there's one intact bridge in the middle of the map, but otherwise all of the bridges seem to be destroyed and I'm not sure how my tanks/bmps are crossing, or how I can tell where they can cross. What am I missing?

Looking forward to getting some tips...

I've played this scenario a couple of times now as WP and haven't gotten better than a contested battle,

Same here :-( ...

Regarding 5) I think that all the bridges are blown so just your amphibious units (BMP-2, BRDM) will cross. Your T-80s will stay on the right bank unless you build a bridge.
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RE: Questions re A Time to Dance *SPOILERS*

Post by DoubleDeuce »

I just played this as NATO and all the bridges appeared to be up through the scenario and I didn't blow any although I probably should have as the WP crossed in 4 places, with the MRB in the center and the 2 TB on their flanks. I lost my Brigade HQ right after they entered (don't ask [8|] ) but managed a Contested Battle (42%). I think I'm gonna read up on my soviet tactics as its been a while since my active duty days and then play it from their side trying to attack 'by the book' and see how that goes.
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RE: Questions re A Time to Dance *SPOILERS*

Post by nukkxx5058 »

all the bridges appeared to be up through the scenario and I didn't blown any although I probably should have as the WP crossed in 4 places

Huh ?!

So what is this small logo with an explosion apparently on a bridge ?
I was quite sure the bridges were destroyed ...

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RE: Questions re A Time to Dance *SPOILERS*

Post by loki100 »

you can set up the NATO forces so you get one 'free' bridge destruction (if you order this in the set up phase it happens immediately). With a bit of luck you can take out the rest except one of the middle ones.

any unit can build a bridge, just use the command to do so - but they need to sit still for 30 mins. So with the Soviets clear out Hestreu then rebuild the bridge, combined with the centre one that gives you 2000 VP (which is the hardest/impossible to blow) should give you a good wedge over the river.

edit - remember that the set up zones for the other side are different to when you play them. If you load the Soviets using the NATO version they are much closer to the river - as opposed to 2/3 movement cycles back. Ditto for NATO.

So its a non-cheating AI, but the set up zones are constructed to give the AI a helping hand - at least that is my impression from the smaller scenarios.
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RE: Questions re A Time to Dance *SPOILERS*

Post by Mad Russian »

ORIGINAL: Double Deuce

I just played this as NATO and all the bridges appeared to be up through the scenario and I didn't blow any although I probably should have as the WP crossed in 4 places, with the MRB in the center and the 2 TB on their flanks. I lost my Brigade HQ right after they entered (don't ask [8|] ) but managed a Contested Battle (42%). I think I'm gonna read up on my soviet tactics as its been a while since my active duty days and then play it from their side trying to attack 'by the book' and see how that goes.


If you play the Best Played as NATO scenario the bridges are up. If you play the Best Played as Soviet scenario the bridges are blown. Those are TWO DIFFERENT SCENARIOS!!

Yeah, about that book....[:D] Let us know how that goes for you! [X(]

Good Hunting.

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RE: Questions re A Time to Dance *SPOILERS*

Post by Mad Russian »

ORIGINAL: loki100

So its a non-cheating AI, but the set up zones are constructed to give the AI a helping hand - at least that is my impression from the smaller scenarios.

Yes, each scenario was playbalanced to be the most competitive they can be. I never said they were mirror scenarios. You should never expect a set of mirror scenarios from me.

Good Hunting.

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RE: Questions re A Time to Dance *SPOILERS*

Post by DoubleDeuce »

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
ORIGINAL: Double Deuce

I just played this as NATO and all the bridges appeared to be up through the scenario and I didn't blow any although I probably should have as the WP crossed in 4 places, with the MRB in the center and the 2 TB on their flanks. I lost my Brigade HQ right after they entered (don't ask [8|] ) but managed a Contested Battle (42%). I think I'm gonna read up on my soviet tactics as its been a while since my active duty days and then play it from their side trying to attack 'by the book' and see how that goes.

If you play the Best Played as NATO scenario the bridges are up. If you play the Best Played as Soviet scenario the bridges are blown. Those are TWO DIFFERENT SCENARIOS!!
Well then, that would explain it! [:D]
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RE: Questions re A Time to Dance *SPOILERS*

Post by Mad Russian »

When you go into a scenario and get to the setup screen you can instantly tell if you have the right scenario. If the units are setup instead if in a large area laid out by unit, you are in the wrong place. I NEVER place units in deployment areas for the gamer. I only set the AI forces up.

Good Hunting.

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RE: Questions re A Time to Dance *SPOILERS*

Post by 76mm »

What I don't understand about river crossings is that if I give my units an order to cross an unbridged portion of a river, the resulting movement line shows the unit moving in a particular pattern and then crossing at a particular spot (without a bridge). If the unit was planning to simply build a bridge, I would think that it would simply move in a straight line and build a bridge to create the shortest line.

The way units seem to aim for particular river-crossing hexes I thought they might be using fords, or that only some hexes are bridgeable? Or is all this my imagination?
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RE: Questions re A Time to Dance *SPOILERS*

Post by Mad Russian »

Put the waypoints close together on both sides of the river where you want to cross. As you place the waypoints and lock them in it will show the path that will be taken by the unit.

Good Hunting.

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RE: Questions re A Time to Dance *SPOILERS*

Post by nukkxx5058 »

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
If you play the Best Played as NATO scenario the bridges are up. If you play the Best Played as Soviet scenario the bridges are blown. Those are TWO DIFFERENT SCENARIOS!!

OK LOL ! Thanks for this important precision. I was entering the twilight zone... [X(] [X(][X(] du tidu doo tu di tu doo ...
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RE: Questions re A Time to Dance *SPOILERS*

Post by 76mm »

Now it is my turn for the Twilight Zone--I just checked, and in the version of the game that I have there is only one scenario called A Time to Dance for each side (not one NATO balanced and one WP balanced). I only see the scenarios after I've chosen a side, and so am only presented with one choice for this scenario.

Moreover, I just loaded the US scenario, and most of the bridges are already blown during the setup phase.

What gives?
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RE: Questions re A Time to Dance *SPOILERS*

Post by CapnDarwin »

76mm, can you post a screen shot of the scenario selection screen?

Thanks.
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RE: Questions re A Time to Dance *SPOILERS*

Post by 76mm »

76mm, can you post a screen shot of the scenario selection screen?

Might not have a chance to do so for several days, as I'll be working late and leaving town early in the morning.
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RE: Questions re A Time to Dance *SPOILERS*

Post by wodin »

The scenarios names are a code...

NL = NATO Large then it will be followed by either..AS = American, WGS= West German and BS = British.
NM= NATO Medium "" ""
NS= NATO Small " "

WL= Warsaw Large
Wm= Warsaw medium
WS = Warsaw Small

HL = Head to head Large
HM= Head to head medium
HS = Head to head Small.
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