Soviets too Strong in '41?

Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: The German-Soviet War 1941-1945 is a turn-based World War II strategy game stretching across the entire Eastern Front. Gamers can engage in an epic campaign, including division-sized battles with realistic and historical terrain, weather, orders of battle, logistics and combat results.

The critically and fan-acclaimed Eastern Front mega-game Gary Grigsby’s War in the East just got bigger and better with Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: Don to the Danube! This expansion to the award-winning War in the East comes with a wide array of later war scenarios ranging from short but intense 6 turn bouts like the Battle for Kharkov (1942) to immense 37-turn engagements taking place across multiple nations like Drama on the Danube (Summer 1944 – Spring 1945).

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lastkozak
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Soviets too Strong in '41?

Post by lastkozak »

I am wondering what others here feel regarding the propensity of the Soviet Army to be quite strong in Dec. '41.

I have found even if the Soviets try to slow down the Germans, they still end up with an army that is quite strong and capable of kicking the Germans hard in a winter offensive. I do not think it is the players, as I was Soviet, and played a strong defense, rather than run away. Had I ran as fast as possible easterly, I am pretty sure I could have kicked the Germans back to Poland.

Unless there is an experienced German Player out there that can prove otherwise, I am thinking a balanced game may mean the Soviets getting a few minuses, or the Germans a few pluses.

Comments anybody?
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RE: Soviets too Strong in '41?

Post by Bozo_the_Clown »

First, what version are you playing?

Second, it all depends what your opponent does. If he does the extended Lvov pocket I very much doubt that the Russian player will be too strong in 41.

Just look at some of these ridiculous AARs Pelton has played with 105/95 settings.

Basically, it's impossible to make a general assessment regarding game balance. It all depends on the players and how well they match.
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RE: Soviets too Strong in '41?

Post by 2ndACR »

Your throwing down a pretty big gauntlet. There are a few here that might just take you up on it.
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RE: Soviets too Strong in '41?

Post by Bozo_the_Clown »

Your throwing down a pretty big gauntlet.

[&:] Did I say something wrong? No comprende! [&:]
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RE: Soviets too Strong in '41?

Post by STEF78 »

Against an experienced german player, you will loose if you play what you call "a strong defence".

You played the german against me and you were not agressive enough and so I had time to dig my Inf Divs.

Bozo is far better than me on the offensive. You should try him with with a forward defence. I think you will be defeated before the mud.

I didn't try the new blizzard rule but it looks like it's enough to rebalance the game.

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RE: Soviets too Strong in '41?

Post by STEF78 »

ORIGINAL: Bozo_the_Clown
Your throwing down a pretty big gauntlet.

[&:] Did I say something wrong? No comprende! [&:]
I understand this answer is not for you but for Lastkozak
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RE: Soviets too Strong in '41?

Post by lastkozak »

Much do I understand, but least of all the false bravado reminiscent of the American Civil War!

The only Lviv Pocket I know of goes down to Chernivtsi. Some tighten it up sooner, I presume this is what you are talking about regarding big and small pocket?

I know nothing about a new blizzard rule or do you mean patch Stefan? And BTW Stefan, we were playing with locked HQ's, which I feel made it impossible for the Germans.

Initially in the War Stalin ordered all troops to the front, it has always been assumed that this allowed the Germans to get deeper, since the troops coming to meet them were ill prepared, and either died or were captured. The game should be set up so that the Germans can obtain similar objectives by Dec 1941, that they did historically. However, even if the Soviets retreat back, or followed the same insane Stalin strategy, I find the Soviets are way too strong come Dec. 1941.

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RE: Soviets too Strong in '41?

Post by STEF78 »

ORIGINAL: lastkozak

Much do I understand, but least of all the false bravado reminiscent of the American Civil War!
As french, I don't feel concerned. But perhaps you don't know why the cock is it the animal symbol of France? It is the only animal which can sing with feet in the shit
The only Lviv Pocket I know of goes down to Chernivtsi. Some tighten it up sooner, I presume this is what you are talking about regarding big and small pocket?
there was another Pocket which could be used by transporting by rail Pz and mot to Rumania. I think it's not possible anymore
I know nothing about a new blizzard rule or do you mean patch Stefan?

Yes it's an option given by the new patch

And BTW Stefan, we were playing with locked HQ's, which I feel made it impossible for the Germans.
I don't agree. Locked HQ is more realistic and can be managed by the german
Initially in the War Stalin ordered all troops to the front, it has always been assumed that this allowed the Germans to get deeper, since the troops coming to meet them were ill prepared, and either died or were captured. The game should be set up so that the Germans can obtain similar objectives by Dec 1941, that they did historically. However, even if the Soviets retreat back, or followed the same insane Stalin strategy, I find the Soviets are way too strong come Dec. 1941.
You're partially right upon this point. In WITE, the SHC cannot afford half the losses it took historically. But above all, before the last patch, GHC CV were ridiculous during the blizzard. In december 1941, well entrenched GHC was able to hold against SHC
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RE: Soviets too Strong in '41?

Post by Bozo_the_Clown »

As french, I don't feel concerned. But perhaps you don't know why the cock is it the animal symbol of France? It is the only animal which can sing with feet in the ****

[:D][:D][:D]

When I talk about the extended Lvov pocket I mean the one were you use two Panzer Corps from Army Group Center. The line goes as far east as Rovno, Proskurov and all the way south to Chernovtsy on turn 1. If that pocket holds I find it very hard to have a decent game as SHC.

The super extended Lvov pocket is no longer possible.
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RE: Soviets too Strong in '41?

Post by lastkozak »

2ndACR - you referring to me dropping a Gauntlet, or some Bozo!


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RE: Soviets too Strong in '41?

Post by lastkozak »

I know nothing of a new patch. I have 1.07.08, there is no option to temper Blizzard that I see.


Bozo, you are free to try this if you like, but for every action, there is a reaction. But if this is the trick to crippling the Soviets, I do not know it.

I have looked at several of Pelton's games, and others', and all I see are Soviet players with no guts!

A Kozak must be a Kozak, no fear of death, lest Glory finds them in want!

Take that Gaunlet and blow it into anything you want, but if you cannot turn it into a Panzer, then it is just some Bozo's hot air!

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[8D] [:D]

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RE: Soviets too Strong in '41?

Post by Joel Billings »

It's a public beta patch 1.07.11 that you can get in the Member's area. We hope it will become official in November.
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RE: Soviets too Strong in '41?

Post by gingerbread »


And BTW Stefan, we were playing with locked HQ's, which I feel made it impossible for the Germans.


I don't agree. Locked HQ is more realistic and can be managed by the german

You do know that 'Locked' only makes HQ's locked when they arrive as reinforcement & At Start of Game/Scenario? They can still be unlocked & locked during the game.

I can't see that either setting is that much of a bonus or malus to either side, though I do prefer to have the Soviets locked so as to not have reinforcing HQ's automatically draw SU from STAVKA when they arrive.
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RE: Soviets too Strong in '41?

Post by lastkozak »

Gingerbread, we had a house rule that the Germans could not unlock them.
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RE: Soviets too Strong in '41?

Post by Bozo_the_Clown »

Take that Gaunlet and blow it into anything you want, but if you cannot turn it into a Panzer, then it is just some Bozo's hot air!

Help, did I say something wrong in this thread that offended anyone. What's happening in this thread.



Let's all stop talking about gauntlets please. This is just a game.

Lastkozak, someone is doing the extended Lvov opening to me. I'll probably post something about this tonight as I am trying to defend forward. But it's most likely futile.

And gingerbread is right. Locked HQ means nothing. I've never played a single game without this option.
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RE: Soviets too Strong in '41?

Post by lastkozak »

I cannot find the link for this beta patch Bill.

Also, If I have Don to the Danube installed, will this beta patch work?





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RE: Soviets too Strong in '41?

Post by lastkozak »

Bozo, Relax!!! I am just joking.

But as Stefan suggests you are a better player than him, as the Germans, I thought it would be nice to see if I am wrong, with my proposition that the Soviets have the advantage!

The rest is just the humour that you chose a clown for your handle and avatar!

And BTW Stefan, when translated into English, I don't believe your reference to a male chicken, has the desired affect you were hoping for.
A chicken or even a rooster is not a seen as a strong symbol of fighting prowess, but the complete opposite; at least in english.
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RE: Soviets too Strong in '41?

Post by STEF78 »

ORIGINAL: lastkozak

And BTW Stefan, when translated into English, I don't believe your reference to a male chicken, has the desired affect you were hoping for.
A chicken or even a rooster is not a seen as a strong symbol of fighting prowess, but the complete opposite; at least in english.
As you know, I'm not native English... and proud of it .... (it's a joke...or perhaps not)

Concerning the symbol, I looked at wikipedia: "The Gallic rooster (French: le coq gaulois) is an unofficial national symbol of France as a nation"

" in Latin, rooster (gallus) and Gauls (Gallus) were homonyms"

It's not a strong neither intelligent animal but it's belong to our sub-culture

And unlike other countries, we don't have a (powerful) leaf on our flag.



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RE: Soviets too Strong in '41?

Post by lastkozak »

" in Latin, rooster (gallus) and Gauls (Gallus) were homonyms"

This I did not know!

However, among the English culture, including Americans, if you wish to taunt somebody, or insult their courage, you call them a 'chicken'. If you made reference to a rooster, it could imply the person has false bravado.

Why do the French not use the Cannon, for me when I think of a Cannon, I think of Napoleon Bonaparte, a figure of strength and military brilliance!
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RE: Soviets too Strong in '41?

Post by Flaviusx »

Where I grew up, cocks are set up to fight one another. It may not be a strong or intelligent animal, but it certainly has fighting spirit. This is very likely a latin thing in general, Mediterranean cultures don't share the same memes as los barbaros rubios del norte, er, the anglo saxons.

I note the United States went with the bald eagle, which is a sort of glorified chicken...(the Romans liked eagles too. Go figure.)





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