Show LOS, max fire, and spottable from overlays

[FroBodine]

I have looked through the manual, and either I'm blind, or it does not explain what the heck I am looking at when I bring up these overlays? What do the numbers mean for each of the overlays?

- Show LOS
- Show max fire
- Show 'spottable from' area

1. What do the numbers mean in each hex?
2. What do the different colored hexes that are highlighted in the overlay mean?

3. Then, it says after you select show LOS for a selected unit, you can shift-click other hexes to see LOS from that hex? How does that hexes LOS relate to the originally selected unit when you initiated show LOS?

Basically, I am completely confused as to what I am seeing with these overlays, and how they help me.

If this is in the manual, then please point me to the page, because I'll be darned that I could not find any explanation, other than general "this will show you your LOS overlay". Not very helpful.

Thanks!

[jnpoint]

ORIGINAL: jglazier

3. Then, it says after you select show LOS for a selected unit, you can shift-click other hexes to see LOS from that hex? How does that hexes LOS relate to the originally selected unit when you initiated show LOS?

Let's hope it can be done, because it would be a great help in the decision-making where to go next.

[Combatengineerjrgmail]

From the manual:

First, there is a hard check of elevations between the spotter and the target. If
a line from one hex to the other is broken by an elevation at or above the line
at the location the LOS is blocked.
If the first check passes, the second test is to see if the accumulated visual
hindrance from the terrain, smoke, wreck, etc. falls below 10% and is
considered blocked.
Recon units and units with thermal sights have bonus that improve their ability
to see deeper into terrain or through smoke.

I think the numbers relate to the second test, i.e. the accumulated visual clutter, with the lower number being the poorer chance to spot an enemy unit.

[nukkxx5058]

ORIGINAL: jglazier

I have looked through the manual, and either I'm blind, or it does not explain what the heck I am looking at when I bring up these overlays? What do the numbers mean for each of the overlays?

- Show LOS
- Show max fire
- Show 'spottable from' area

1. What do the numbers mean in each hex?
2. What do the different colored hexes that are highlighted in the overlay mean?

3. Then, it says after you select show LOS for a selected unit, you can shift-click other hexes to see LOS from that hex? How does that hexes LOS relate to the originally selected unit when you initiated show LOS?

Basically, I am completely confused as to what I am seeing with these overlays, and how they help me.

If this is in the manual, then please point me to the page, because I'll be darned that I could not find any explanation, other than general "this will show you your LOS overlay". Not very helpful.

Thanks!

These are good questions indeed.
Needs some explanations.

[FroBodine]

I'm not sure what you're asking for, jnpoint.

That paragraph from the manual, combatengineerjr, does not help me understand what I am seeing at all.

I'm hoping the developers can respond to my specific questions.

This is completely baffling to me. Numbers and colors, what the heck does it all mean? And the different "Show" commands - please explain in detail. Right now, I have no idea what my line of sight to any hex is.

Thanks again! Help us, Mad Russian, you're our only hope!

[jnpoint]

ORIGINAL: jglazier

I'm not sure what you're asking for, jnpoint.

That paragraph from the manual, combatengineerjr, does not help me understand what I am seeing at all.

I'm hoping the developers can respond to my specific questions.

This is completely baffling to me. Numbers and colors, what the heck does it all mean? And the different "Show" commands - please explain in detail. Right now, I have no idea what my line of sight to any hex is.

Thanks again!

Sorry, I wasn't asking for anything. I just did agree with you on that one.
It must be my bad English that confuses you

[CapnDarwin]

Okay, quick run down.
To check the line of sight of a unit, click on the unit, right click and select "show los". What you see are highlighted hexes that your unit can see into. The color green to red is a visual good to bad visibility. The number is the basic percentage to see something in the hex. The more clutter you look thr ough the harder it is to see. You can now click on other units and see what they might see. If you want to see the basic visibility from an empty hex just shift-click it.

Show max fire shows the max range of the units primary weapon system.

Spottable From is a rough idea of how visible yourunit is based on its current cover, movement, shooting, etc. An enemy who is inside the circle has a very good chance of spotting you. Certain units and equipment can spot you beyond tthis range.

Hope this helps. I will get this in the Errata tonight.

[apd1004]

A couple questions related to this topic.

--Spotting of units by their EW signatures and/or indirect fire. No rule book handy, but I recall reading something about how some units like HQ units can be targeted by their EW signatures (i.e. - radio traffic). Same thing for indirect fire units for counterbattery, which is why we have shoot-n-scoot. Seems to me if I don't have staff control of fire support enabled then I would never know that any of these units are being detected because I never see them appear on the map, but the on call artillery units are finding them because they are targeting them and getting kills. Every now and then my on call artillery under control of my staff will fire on what to me appears to be an empty hex but then I see explosions and crosses and reports of HQ or artillery kills. Is there anything in the works to get some sort of visual on the map indicating EW signatures or indirect fire origin (which would be detected by counter-fire radar systems)? A marker on the map with a radius that would indicate a radar signature or a large concentration of electromagnetic activity (i.e. radios), or an azimuth and distance from my artillery HQ unit which would be the counter fire radar tracking incoming. Not sure if any of this stuff is in the works but it sure would increase the immersion factor.

--Ground Surveillance Radars. I was playing the campaign as the Soviet and got excited when I received a company of SNAR-10 GSR's. The excitement quickly faded when I saw in the manual that GSR's are not implemented yet. Any plans on getting them working?

--Other sensor detection ranges. I'm thinking I'd like to know what the math is for the capabilities of each sighting/fire control system. When I see a unit that has "long range infrared", what exactly does that mean? Something like "150% of the current visual range" or whatever. Also, what are the weather and atmospheric effects on each of the systems. The tutorial mentioned something about how dawn affects thermals, but what exactly are the effects in game terms? What range are the M1's are seeing my T-80's and at what range can my T-80's see the M1's?

[Mad Russian]

Sounds like an "Under the Hood" question to me. [8D]

Good Hunting.

MR

[FroBodine]

So, is there someone who can answer these questions, if not you, MR?

[CapnDarwin]

apd1004

1. Added this to the list. I like the idea.
2. They are already on the list for future features.
3. Trying to quantify a number of things in the manuals was nearly impossible. There are generally so many factors rolled up in a single item like spotting or shooting. Some of the equipment items should have decent info on what they do. Again in general terms. Thermal sights see through smoke and at night like daytime (the current visibility range). Weather does degrade the sight ranges X% (I'll have to dig it later). Thermal inversion at dawn and dusk reduced it about 50% of the current conditions. Best way to see the range they can see is to use the LOS tool and note the time of day and weather changes. At some point down the road I'll have time to get more in depth with some of the numbers. There is a thread called Under the Hood that talks to some of this.

[nukkxx5058]

Well, back on the LOS.
I'm currently playing A time to dance and I can't find a hex with a LOS greater than 3 hexes away which, if I read correctly the manual , means 1500 meters away. This is very little. especially when I'm on a 3 or 4 elevation hex. It should be at least 10 km.
No ?

[Grim.Reaper]

ORIGINAL: nukkxx

Well, back on the LOS.
I'm currently playing A time to dance and I can't find a hex with a LOS greater than 3 hexes away which, if I read correctly the manual , means 1500 meters away. This is very little. especially when I'm on a 3 or 4 elevation hex. It should be at least 10 km.
No ?

Maybe weather and visibility factors playing a role in how far you can see?

[nukkxx5058]

Maybe weather and visibility factors playing a role in how far you can see?

Good point !

It's true that in the scenario there is fog and rain and very bad weather condition !
Even my MIGs can't take of because of weather conditions...
If it's confirmed then the game is very well designed !

Will have to try again when the weather improve.

[CapnDarwin]

nukkx,

LOS and spotting in this game are extremely dynamic. That is half of the problem of answer questions like "How far can my X unit see with a thermal sight?". The real answer is depends on conditions, crew, location, etc. In the mist/fog of the start of the scenario the spotting range for eyeballs is 1500m. Thermal sights will get about 500m more until dawn then the TIs fade back to 1000 or so and the eyeball is better. Recon units get a boost to spotting based on training and equipment use so they will eyeball at about 2000m in the soup. Once daylight hits and the fog lifts you can be 5000m to 10000m visibility. Aircraft have to be night capable to fly at night or all-weather capable to fly in fog/rain situations.

A bit more insight into LOS and Spotting. Hope it helps.

[Mad Russian]

ROFL!!!!

Yes, "fog and rain and very bad weather condition" do affect the LOS!

Yes, this is a very well designed game!

Rob is DA MAN!! [&o]

Good Hunting.

MR

[nukkxx5058]

[&o] [&o] [&o]
LOL

[cbelva]

Lessons I learned while playing as the Soviets when going against a NATO force with thermal sights. Attack during the day when you can see as good as the enemy. Don't attack on a clear night. He will see you long before you can see him. If you have to attack at night, attack in heavy fog and or heavy rain, it diminishes his thermal capabilities. He will still see you before you see him, but you can close the distance quicker.