Game length

World in Flames is the computer version of Australian Design Group classic board game. World In Flames is a highly detailed game covering the both Europe and Pacific Theaters of Operations during World War II. If you want grand strategy this game is for you.

Moderator: Shannon V. OKeets

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richholling
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:43 pm

Game length

Post by richholling »

I played the board game two or three times in my early twenties. Given each game took an elapsed 6-9 months playing on average a full day every 2 weeks that was real achievement, that was in the late 90s. I had to stop playing when the wife wanted to convert the board games room into a Nursery!

I also played a similar game from TSR, the scenario book said game play length for total war at a "summer", in my experience WiF takes a little longer, even with play by email I'm expecting games to take a year or so to play.

My brother and an old school friend are looking forward to playing. For my two pennies worth forget full AI. I just don't think you'll ever get it good enough the game is just too complex.

If the game just knows the rules and enforces them then I'm happy!

I bought the final deluxe edition from Australia, it cost a fortune, I did expect the game to cost a small fortune too.
WIF_Killzone
Posts: 277
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:51 pm

RE: Game length

Post by WIF_Killzone »

I hear ya. It took a while to play a game. I had my game suspended from the ceiling on a pulley system, balsa wood to make it light weight, it never got disturbed, just lowered it down onto table when we played. Many a good time!!! I'm really looking forward to its release.
Shannon V. OKeets
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RE: Game length

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

ORIGINAL: WIF_Killzone

I hear ya. It took a while to play a game. I had my game suspended from the ceiling on a pulley system, balsa wood to make it light weight, it never got disturbed, just lowered it down onto table when we played. Many a good time!!! I'm really looking forward to its release.
I am pretty sure that MWIF will play faster than WIF over-the-board. It will be more difficult to review the map as a whole, simply because monitors aren't as big as the printed WIF FE maps.

But setup will be drastically reduced, from hours to minutes - yeah, I think divide by 60 works for that reduction.

During game play all the arguing about the rules will disappear (or be even more pointless than usual). But the fastest increase will be in the calculations and determining which units can move. Odd bits like out-of-supply naval units having 1 less movement point, damaged naval units having their defense factor increased by one, intercepting fighters having only half their range, bombers flying at extended range having half their bombing factors, all the effects of weather and terrain on combat, units having to cooperate in order to participate in an air mission, and on and on. Then the actual calculations for land, naval, and air combats will evaporate, since the program works that all out for you.

But two of the biggest time savers will be having the sequence of play rigidly enforced (and visible for inspection at a mouse click), and finding which air units can move during all the 8 air missions, naval air phase, and air rebase phase. Zero time will be spent examining stacks of units looking for air units that are capable of flying in the current phase/subphase.

There is also a ton of information available that relieves the players of the burden of remembering and/or figuring things out. For example, how many land units have you moved in this Combined action? Is this unit in supply now that the weather is Snow?

When playing over the board, a lot of time was spent making sure the rules were being followed and that everyone agreed that all the moves and combats were done correctly/accurately.

Unless I miss my guess, players will be playing the game more and looking up rules less.
Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.
pzgndr
Posts: 3486
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:51 am
Location: Maryland

RE: Game length

Post by pzgndr »

..forget full AI. I just don't think you'll ever get it good enough the game is just too complex.

Hell, I doubt if I'll ever get myself good enough to play this monster. Even a poor AI is likely to keep me scrambling for quite a while as I get up to speed.

Unlike some, I remain optimistic that full AI can and will be challenging and competitive for most casual players. And frankly I don't want to be tied to some other player's schedule for 6-9 months. A computer opponent can be on MY schedule whenever I want it to be so I can actually finish games within a decent time period, and that's why folks buy and play computer games. And I don't mind waiting for the AI to be released later. It's all good.
Bill Macon
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petracelli
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:34 am
Location: Herts UK

RE: Game length

Post by petracelli »

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: WIF_Killzone

I hear ya. It took a while to play a game. I had my game suspended from the ceiling on a pulley system, balsa wood to make it light weight, it never got disturbed, just lowered it down onto table when we played. Many a good time!!! I'm really looking forward to its release.
I am pretty sure that MWIF will play faster than WIF over-the-board. It will be more difficult to review the map as a whole, simply because monitors aren't as big as the printed WIF FE maps.

But setup will be drastically reduced, from hours to minutes - yeah, I think divide by 60 works for that reduction.

During game play all the arguing about the rules will disappear (or be even more pointless than usual). But the fastest increase will be in the calculations and determining which units can move. Odd bits like out-of-supply naval units having 1 less movement point, damaged naval units having their defense factor increased by one, intercepting fighters having only half their range, bombers flying at extended range having half their bombing factors, all the effects of weather and terrain on combat, units having to cooperate in order to participate in an air mission, and on and on. Then the actual calculations for land, naval, and air combats will evaporate, since the program works that all out for you.

But two of the biggest time savers will be having the sequence of play rigidly enforced (and visible for inspection at a mouse click), and finding which air units can move during all the 8 air missions, naval air phase, and air rebase phase. Zero time will be spent examining stacks of units looking for air units that are capable of flying in the current phase/subphase.

There is also a ton of information available that relieves the players of the burden of remembering and/or figuring things out. For example, how many land units have you moved in this Combined action? Is this unit in supply now that the weather is Snow?

When playing over the board, a lot of time was spent making sure the rules were being followed and that everyone agreed that all the moves and combats were done correctly/accurately.

Unless I miss my guess, players will be playing the game more and looking up rules less.


The more I read of your efforts Steve the more I want to play it. As a long time wiffer know that the counting of oil the counting of how many units moved etc are real time killers not to mention production, all now done with a click .... Brilliant.
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Neilster
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RE: Game length

Post by Neilster »

Having seen the amount of work by real experts on the AI, I'm confident it will be very competitive. As has been pointed out before, it really only needs to be good enough to teach beginners and challenge intermediate players as real gurus will probably want to play other gurus (keeping in mind the real-world issues above).

The very complication of the game, the fact that the computer won't make silly mistakes, won't forget stuff and will play the rules optimally makes me think the AI could be tough.

I also agree that there will be really significant time savings over board WiF. I remember the actual physical effort of poring over those big maps trying not to bump anything could be quite tiring. Also you have to sort out counters, work out force pools, endlessly flick through the rule and scenario books, examine stacks, calculate odds, look up tables... After a few hours I'd be ready for a peace treaty [;)]

Cheers, Neilster
Cheers, Neilster
dogancan
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:11 pm
Location: Ankara - Turkey

RE: Game length

Post by dogancan »

ORIGINAL: pzgndr
..forget full AI. I just don't think you'll ever get it good enough the game is just too complex.

Hell, I doubt if I'll ever get myself good enough to play this monster. Even a poor AI is likely to keep me scrambling for quite a while as I get up to speed.

Unlike some, I remain optimistic that full AI can and will be challenging and competitive for most casual players. And frankly I don't want to be tied to some other player's schedule for 6-9 months. A computer opponent can be on MY schedule whenever I want it to be so I can actually finish games within a decent time period, and that's why folks buy and play computer games. And I don't mind waiting for the AI to be released later. It's all good.

+1 here. As a total newbie, MWIF will be much more appealing for me with an AIO available anytime I want to play.

And guesstimate on the date of availability of the AIO?
This is Great War, everybody dies!
Numdydar
Posts: 3271
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:56 pm

RE: Game length

Post by Numdydar »

9-12 months after release is the current estimate. Of course if Steve will need to make a lot of fixes to the base game post release, then that estimate could go longer. But I am positive that an AIO will be ready before 2025 [X(]
brian brian
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Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:39 pm

RE: Game length

Post by brian brian »

You're not supposed to talk about a pitcher throwing a No-Hitter while the game is still in progress...
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rowan8915
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:46 pm

RE: Game length

Post by rowan8915 »

I've been playing WiF for more years then I'd like to remember. [8D] We have played in living rooms, sewing rooms, cellers, Game store "game areas". I even dabbled with the computerize version for a bit.

Sometimes the game has gone on so Long you had to wipe the dust and dirt off the maps. And how many games have been disrupted by kids, and pets?

I may miss the group of us around the game map, but I won't miss the dirty maps, nor will I miss the hours of "rule discussion".

Bring on the game, we are awaiting the fruits of Steve's labors!
Dennis
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