Formation Editor

[RockKahn]

So, I gather there is no way to get any kind of precision when stationing ships in a formation? Back in the day, when we were told to take up station bearing 315 2000 yards from the flag ship, we were expected to go there. Eye-balling it was not an option.

My formations are looking a terribly lopsided. It would be nice to at least be able to place RPs at a specific ranges and bearings from the lead ship. Then I could use these RPs as stations then delete them. It would be terribly cumbersome doing it that way, but it should work.

[HercMighty]

Maybe we can get a Youtube video from the developers on how the envisioned formation management would work with their design? Sorry, but the current design has me confused and I am having a hard time understanding how I can achieve similar results as I used to get in Harpoon (realize the reference to this game might get annoying but it's the only comparison I got).

Also I liked being able to have the formation editor open in one window showing detail while in the main window leaving the group view open. With Commands design this would work even better because I can take advantage of my dual monitors.

[ExMachina]

Back in the day, when we were told to take up station bearing 315 2000 yards from the flag ship, we were expected to go there. Eye-balling it was not an option.

You could do:
1) Pause game
2) Ctrl-D, click flagship move line to desired bearing and distance; hit Esc and drop a reference point
3) Select edit formation, select unit you want to move and use the reference point to drop the new station

[ExMachina]

Also I liked being able to have the formation editor open in one window showing detail while in the main window leaving the group view open. With Commands design this would work even better because I can take advantage of my dual monitors.

I would love the option of opening multiple, windowed views. Perhaps that could be an refinement for the future? [:)]

[RockKahn]

Thanks ExMachina. It's a little awkward, but a good workaround. It gets the job done. It gets easier after I do it a few times.

I hope maybe in a future release they'll add a formation editor with more features.

When I work with formations, I end up with small red triangles on the map when I select a ship in the formation. Anyone know what they are?

[Der Zeitgeist]

The red diamonds are the patrol stations, I think.

[ExMachina]

Thanks ExMachina. It's a little awkward, but a good workaround. It gets the job done.

Sure. [:)] And I haven't played H2/3 for years...can you remind me if what you asked for (xx distance and yy degrees from flagship) was even possible--with any precision--in the H2/3 formation editor? I don't remember any range/bearing indicators (just ballpark, range rings).

[Dimitris]

ORIGINAL: RockKahn
Thanks ExMachina. It's a little awkward, but a good workaround. It gets the job done. It gets easier after I do it a few times.

It's not exactly a workaround, it's how it's supposed to work.

Command uses the formation editor only for positioning the group units relative to the group leader. It's a different approach than Harpoon, with its own pros and cons.

[Dimitris]

ORIGINAL: ExMachina

Thanks ExMachina. It's a little awkward, but a good workaround. It gets the job done.

Sure. [:)] And I haven't played H2/3 for years...can you remind me if what you asked for (xx distance and yy degrees from flagship) was even possible--with any precision--in the H2/3 formation editor? I don't remember any range/bearing indicators (just ballpark, range rings).

Command offers two mechanisms for measuring bearing & distance:
* Ctrl+D allows you to measure from an arbitrary point.
* Selecting a unit/contact and then simply moving the mouse cursor around, displays the bearing + distance from the selection on the cursor's "black box".

[mjk428]

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

Command offers two mechanisms for measuring bearing & distance:
* Ctrl+D allows you to measure from an arbitrary point.
* Selecting a unit/contact and then simply moving the mouse cursor around, displays the bearing + distance from the selection on the cursor's "black box".

I haven't been able to use Ctrl+D from inside the formation editor when it comes time to tell units where to relocate.

The black box shows distance from the unit that I want to move rather than the distance from the center of the formation. Not sure which would be preferable overall but obviously the distance from the leader would be the way to go if you want to place a unit an exact distance away.

[RockKahn]

I don't remember there ever being a range and bearing option in Harpoon's formation editor, either. I just remember the range rings and sectors in the formation dialog box. It worked well.

I just mentioned using a range and bearing, because it may be closer to what's already in Command, than a separate dialog box like Harpoon's. Also, that's the way it's done in real life....well.... 40 years ago, anyway. [:'(]

I wonder if the devs are getting a little tired of people suggesting things, because it was a feature they liked in Harpoon. [&:] I probably would be.

I wrote out complete instructions for those who want to station a ship a specific range and bearing from the formation lead ship using ExMachina's suggestion. Apparently, this is the way it was designed to work. All the tools are there to do this. It's a little cumbersome, but gets easier when you've done it a few times.

1. Press Ctrl-D, then click and drag the "+" from the lead ship to the desired range and bearing.
2. Press ESC
3. Then Ctrl-Right click to bring up the RP menu, while being careful not to move the mouse pointer.
4. Press the down-arrow key to select "Add reference point" from the menu and press ENTER.
5. Press the left mouse button to set the RP.
6. Open the formation editor, select the ship you want at that station from the list, click the desired "Set new station" button.
7. Move the hand cursor near the RP and Click (don't click on the RP, it just selects the RP).
8. Close the formation editor.
9. Click the RP and press the Delete key to delete the RP.

And you're done. Easy as pie. Goto step 1 for next ship.

[ExMachina]

I wonder if the devs are getting a little tired of people suggesting things, because it was a feature they liked in Harpoon. I probably would be.

Agreed. But for most of us who played H2/3 in the distant (or not-so-distant) past, UN-learning can seem harder than learning [:)]

[HercMighty]

ORIGINAL: RockKahn

1. Press Ctrl-D, then click and drag the "+" from the lead ship to the desired range and bearing.
2. Press ESC
3. Then Ctrl-Right click to bring up the RP menu, while being careful not to move the mouse pointer.
4. Press the down-arrow key to select "Add reference point" from the menu and press ENTER.
5. Press the left mouse button to set the RP.
6. Open the formation editor, select the ship you want at that station from the list, click the desired "Set new station" button.
7. Move the hand cursor near the RP and Click (don't click on the RP, it just selects the RP).
8. Close the formation editor.
9. Click the RP and press the Delete key to delete the RP.

And you're done. Easy as pie. Goto step 1 for next ship.

Ok, so the Harpoon references may becoming annoying (Though what do you expect I guess) there has to be a more intuitive solution than the above...

[Rudd]

UN-learning can seem harder than learning

Quote of the day!! lol, because it's the truth, for me anyway[:D]

[RockKahn]

I agree 100%. I said if I were a dev I'd be tired of people suggesting all these Harpoon features. But I'm not a dev, so I want all these suggested Harpoon features, too.

You're right, it shouldn't take 9 steps to station one ship. (The list would be shorter if I provided less detail.) Also, if you mess up before you get your RP placed, you have to start all over again. It does get easier the more you do it, but, yes, there needs to be a better way.

[ExMachina]

You're right, it shouldn't take 9 steps to station one ship. (The list would be shorter if I provided less detail.) Also, if you mess up before you get your RP placed, you have to start all over again. It does get easier the more you do it, but, yes, there needs to be a better way.

It's 9 steps b/c when you write it all out it looks terrible (it's actually just two things: 1) set ref point and 2)set station)...more importantly you're doing something (placing a station at a specific range and a specific bearing from a specific (other) ship) that you couldn't in H2/3...

[Amono]

I still don't get it how to setup proper asw patrol. Let's say that I have a formation with a HVU , two Ticos and a Spruance. In the formation editor I put Ticos near the HVU with fixed bearing stations. I set a patrol zone with four refpoints(relative bearing to HVU) along the HVU PIM. The patrol zone is 12nm to 20nm in front of the HVU. Then I detach the Spruance from the formation and create a asw patrol mission and assign the Spruance in it. I've set formation speed to 14kts and the detached spruance starts moving towards the patrol zone at 18kts. Instead of sprinting to 20nm point the Spruance starts drifting at 12nm point and it changes constantly speed as it tries to keep up with moving patrol zone.[&:]

[Amono]

Here's a save game.

[RockKahn]

ORIGINAL: ExMachina

You're right, it shouldn't take 9 steps to station one ship. (The list would be shorter if I provided less detail.) Also, if you mess up before you get your RP placed, you have to start all over again. It does get easier the more you do it, but, yes, there needs to be a better way.

It's 9 steps b/c when you write it all out it looks terrible (it's actually just two things: 1) set ref point and 2)set station)...more importantly you're doing something (placing a station at a specific range and a specific bearing from a specific (other) ship) that you couldn't in H2/3...

Yep. You've repeated what I've said, so I guess we're on the same page. [;)]

[eaube]

ORIGINAL: Amono

I still don't get it how to setup proper asw patrol. Let's say that I have a formation with a HVU , two Ticos and a Spruance. In the formation editor I put Ticos near the HVU with fixed bearing stations. I set a patrol zone with four refpoints(relative bearing to HVU) along the HVU PIM. The patrol zone is 12nm to 20nm in front of the HVU. Then I detach the Spruance from the formation and create a asw patrol mission and assign the Spruance in it. I've set formation speed to 14kts and the detached spruance starts moving towards the patrol zone at 18kts. Instead of sprinting to 20nm point the Spruance starts drifting at 12nm point and it changes constantly speed as it tries to keep up with moving patrol zone.[&:]

This is where I'm still at. Setting a station keeping picket is no problem, but managing to have ASW ships sprint/drift in a certain area relative to a formation completely eludes me.

Either it's INCREDIBLY un-intuitive to do so, or the ability is simply not in the game right now. If it's the first, some sort of tutorial video would be great. If it's the later, that's fine, you never get EVERYTHING in a first release with a game that complicated, but I both hope that this is something that's added as it's EXTREMELY important and that someone at least SAYS that it's not in the game right now rather than just having people get frustrated trying to do this.

People can be pretty understanding about that sort of thing if you are open about it and keep them informed [;)]