Air Defenses

Take command of air and naval assets from post-WW2 to the near future in tactical and operational scale, complete with historical and hypothetical scenarios and an integrated scenario editor.

Moderator: MOD_Command

Post Reply
User avatar
Alejo1968
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:42 pm

Air Defenses

Post by Alejo1968 »

Warning: too long post, here is when you can decide to leave! [:D]
I edited and run historical scenarios from the Falklands war to no success. The Historical battles were:
May 1st 1982: 3 Dagger (M5) against 2 Type 21 frigates and a Type 42 destroyer, all them around 10 nm SSW of Port Stanley. They never got to the target no matter where they came from (sea or land). Historical outcome: all three mirages attacked and returned to base.
Sea of Fire Without the Etendards (and their exocet missiles), also took the number from 6 to 4 A-4B to match the historical battle. Most of the time, all of them were destroyed and in one case, one got to the ships but never obtained the historical outcome (all four survived, even though you must consider that stated in the intro of the scenario).
There are other historical examples like the attack on HMS Invincible or HMS Avenger (according to the source you take into account), in which the HMS Exeter shot down with Sea Dart 2 A4Cs out of 4. In any case, at least, 50% of the flight survived facing the most deadly weapons RN had at the time to put against them. They attacket its naval targets in open sea.
I do not consider here the sinking of the HMS Ardent and HMS Antelope due to having the Sea Cat SAMs that were not at the same level of quality of the Sea Wolf and Sea Dart. But the fact is, the next ones were the best of those years:
Sea Dart: The system is credited with seven confirmed kills, five of them were helicopters, a Canberra and a Lear Jet (not precisely a difficult fast and low flying target). Only two of nineteen fired at low level aircraft hit their intended tgt (eleven percent); however a number of missiles were fired without guidance to deter low level attacks.
Sea Wolf: this was the “gol keeper” of the fleet. It suffered from problems with hardware failure causing launches to fail, and broken lock resulting from the extreme sea conditions and the Argentines´ low altitude tactics used by pilots. In the end, Sea Wolf accounted for two confirmed "kills" and three further possible successes from eight launches. A confirmed probability kill of 25%. If you include the probable kills you go up to 62%, but that wouldn’t be accurate statistically speaking. So I get an average between them of 43%. In the war, the best performance in one attack was shooting down 2 a/c out of 4 with Sea Wolf. One additional crashed to the sea maneuvering to avoid, so we can go here to the discussion “do we consider it or not?”… But the the missile still didn’t hit.
And another consideration… Originally the Radar Type 910 used by Sea Wolf suffered from poor performance locking onto low-altitude targets hidden in the background sea clutter. Low-level targets had to be engaged using the secondary TV mode to manually track the target. This is important to my point…
Now, the formula we are using is (some how)…
Ph=Pk-M
Ph= Probability Hit
Pk= Probability Kill
M= Maneuvering Target
But if we add System Reliability (representing this “getting and maintaining” the track of the target at the moment of impact) and Weapon Reliability (no one piece of hardware is perfect), we get (just as a vague example)
Ph=Pk-(M+Sr+Wr) and continuing with (I insist) a vague example…
=80 - (30 (maneuvering target, no matter altitude) +10 (system reliability: sea clutter low alt tgt) +5 (weapon reliability itself)
80-(30+10+5)
I got here 35% against 50%, which could eventually take me to more historical outcomes. This values could eventually be mofified according to pre or post eras concerning upgrades suffered by systems.
I truly and sincerely don’t want to ask for changes. I just want to give you feedback with an appropriate background to support it, and my experience with the scenarios. You decide to consider it or not (better if you do[:D])I cannot speak of other eras/moments of naval combat’s history, near post ww2 or ultra modern.
I think THIS IS the simulation, and would like to have it as close as possible to reality as it can be modeled. Do not misunderstand me, this is not a criticism, but a comment to make of Command, a state of the art simulation.
Sorry for being that extensive, and all this data is easily gotten from the internet. This is not a post oriented to debate. Thanks again for such a wonderful wargame.

EDIT: Found the "sea skimmer" modifier and it actually reduced de Ph by 16,33% against aerial targets. A 24% Ph for the Sea Dart. Also a -3% for the Sea Wolf due to "distance". Another try and all 4 shot down in my modified Sea of Fire. Better Ph but too high ROF. 17 Sea Dart and 5 Sea Wolf fired to get the 4 a/c.
Don´t know. It´s been impossible to get a 50% survival in any of my attempts. I´m thinking of a parameter at the beggining of the scenario that would allow us state a policy of use for weapons? "conservative" (shoot, check for impact now you can shoot again), "normal" (salvos allowed) and "don´t worry"? In the scenario I mention the Coventry fired 17 Sea Dart when only 19 were fired in the actual whole campaign.
User avatar
Alejo1968
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:42 pm

RE: Air Defenses

Post by Alejo1968 »

Is it possible to copy, rename a DB and modify ships´s missile ROF?
mikmykWS
Posts: 7185
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:34 pm

RE: Air Defenses

Post by mikmykWS »

No it isn't. Sorry.

Mike
Post Reply

Return to “Command: Modern Operations series”