Pricing Suggestion

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thewood1
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RE: Pricing Suggestion

Post by thewood1 »

Achtung Panzer is as complex, but they completely screwed up distribution and patching. For a while you could get it for $5. It has actually stabilized where all the DLC comes to about $110. Again, not as broad as Command, more on the scale of CMBN. Sales are less frequent now that they have only a single distributor.

The ATF series. There have been a few sales and bundles, but all up running over $100. They have done a little discounting, but not much on a 10 year old product.

Strategic Command 2 with all the addons and sequels is probably running about $80 now. They were discounted recently when some of the addons came out and there is a lot of bundling also. But note they have now come over to Matrix. I have to assume that is one of the reasons why.

ARMA 2 took 2 years to discount. I got ARMA 2 and all the expansions for $75. That was sold through multiple channels, but until Steam, it held its price. They went to Steam after a couple years. But even after Steam, it was not too cheap to get everything. If you want to wait a few years, that is the model to follow. It's new version is what drove it pricing.

Steel Beasts - $115, now down from the original $125. It has been around that price since I can remember, plus they charge $20-$30 for upgrade. Just before 3.0 came out they lowered the entry price to $80, but 3.0 upgrade was $40. Now the overall price is back to $115.

I think Histwar Grognards is still running over $70 for download only. A lot more for boxed.

I don't count Wargame:European Escalation and Total War. These are low fidelity mass market games, not what I define as wargames. They are more RTS with a war flavor.

I know there are some more out there...just can't think of them right now. The ones I listed are very complex simulations excepting SC2.

edit...I checked the euro/US $ exchange rate. That brings itdown to $55. I bought Histwar a while ago and the exchange rate sucked so it cost be $68

thewood1
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RE: Pricing Suggestion

Post by thewood1 »

ORIGINAL: dutchman55555

ORIGINAL: thewood1

So you never answered my question...is the $95 for CMBN inaccessible?

So $65 plus the $10 upgrade is $75...only $5 cheaper than Command. So either you aren't going to buy anymore CMBN modules, or you will end up spending more than on Command. Even if MG discounts to $25 in a year, that is still more than Command will ever be totaled up.

I am totally confused by your logic. Even after 4 years if they discount to CMSF levels, your most likely still talking $65-$70. Not only that, BFC charged for an upgrade, something some people are fired up that it might be a possibility with Command.

You're confused that I continue to buy additional parts of an ever-expanding series (when they reach a price point I find acceptable), as opposed to a single purchase product with a price I find awe-inspiring?

There is a philosophy, held by many even within the Matrix community, that the higher Matrix prices things, the more sales they lose, and the more people they scare away from the hobby. And pricing a new release at $90 absolutely guarantees that anyone who is entertaining the idea of entering the PC wargaming hobby will take a pass. And left with the impression that the hobby is that expensive, they will most likely walk away for good.

So what if COmmand came out in three pieces scattered over three years. Better. You prefer waiting 2-3 years to complete the game like CMBN?
Aurelian
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RE: Pricing Suggestion

Post by Aurelian »

nvm.

Not much point in complaining about the price. It isn't going to change any time soon.

And it isn't going to change because of the complaining.
Watched a documentary on beavers. Best dam documentary I've ever seen.
Rob322
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RE: Pricing Suggestion

Post by Rob322 »

I don't think that's the point of this thread anymore [;)]
thewood1
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RE: Pricing Suggestion

Post by thewood1 »

It is to discuss pricing right...did I miss that?
Rob322
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RE: Pricing Suggestion

Post by Rob322 »

I thought it was to complain about it [8|]. Seems like its wandered into other games ...
Aurelian
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RE: Pricing Suggestion

Post by Aurelian »

It wandered due to comparing two different companies.
Watched a documentary on beavers. Best dam documentary I've ever seen.
Rosseau
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RE: Pricing Suggestion

Post by Rosseau »

I would "wander" over to the Matrix store and buy this game. [;)]

Now, considering I have hardly played ANW and HCE, can anyone tell me why I should bother? With all due respect to those classics of the 1990s.
mjk428
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RE: Pricing Suggestion

Post by mjk428 »

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Actually its the only way to deflate the pricing arguments. Command is not over-priced when compared to other complex wargames.

Why do you feel the need to deflate the argument that others are making? Better to inflate your own argument if you want to sway people into the buy column. You won't convince anyone they're wrong on your word alone.

The price is high. No doubt about it. Matrix concedes that when they call it a premium game. The people concerned about the price aren't necessarily saying the game is over-priced. They just don't want to risk learning it's over-priced after paying a premium. At this early stage the jury is still out on whether the game is "worth it" or not. No matter how promising the first impression might be.
kvob
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RE: Pricing Suggestion

Post by kvob »

Matrix can set any price they want but, ultimately, it's the customer who decides if it is right or wrong. On this occasion, I have decided it is wrong and won't be buying this game.

It may seem like whining to come here just to say that I won't be buying, but I think it's important that Matrix can look at this thread and make a comparism on sales gained against sales (potentially) lost.
mjk428
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RE: Pricing Suggestion

Post by mjk428 »

ORIGINAL: kvob

It may seem like whining to come here just to say that I won't be buying, but I think it's important that Matrix can look at this thread and make a comparism on sales gained against sales (potentially) lost.


As long as you're polite about it nobody should take exception. If you why it's too high then that's valuable customer feedback that I expect Matrix takes into consideration.

I bought it only because the subject matter is irresistible for me. Even then I had to ponder it and take the bite out of it with a $20 gift card. At $60 I'd have bought without hesitation. Matrix is confident that they priced it right and with me they ultimately did - but just barely. And having now paid for a Premium Game I'm going to be far less forgiving of any faults.
dutchman55555
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RE: Pricing Suggestion

Post by dutchman55555 »

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Achtung Panzer is as complex, but they completely screwed up distribution and patching. For a while you could get it for $5. It has actually stabilized where all the DLC comes to about $110.

If you buy it at full price. I acquired the whole thing (minus the DLC released in the last couple of days) at a Christmas sale for (I kid you not) $10. What are the chances Matrix will put Command on sale for $10 in the next few years, or ever?

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Again, not as broad as Command, more on the scale of CMBN. Sales are less frequent now that they have only a single distributor.

There's that single distributor thing again. I agree that it's terrible for sales, so why has Matrix adopted it? (And the AP series has at least two distributors, and their own site.)

ORIGINAL: thewood1

The ATF series. There have been a few sales and bundles, but all up running over $100. They have done a little discounting, but not much on a 10 year old product.

Strategic Command 2 with all the addons and sequels is probably running about $80 now. They were discounted recently when some of the addons came out and there is a lot of bundling also. But note they have now come over to Matrix. I have to assume that is one of the reasons why.

I have no knowledge of these, so I'll take your word for it. I do note that ATF is Shrapnel Games, and from the look of their site the company is all but dead (most recent forum posts are several years old), and there's the All American: The 82nd Airborne vapourware fiasco, so I'd hardly consider it a viable or credible model for a business, especially when their discounts are infrequent (although there's one wrapping up right now).

ORIGINAL: thewood1

ARMA 2 took 2 years to discount. I got ARMA 2 and all the expansions for $75. That was sold through multiple channels, but until Steam, it held its price. They went to Steam after a couple years. But even after Steam, it was not too cheap to get everything. If you want to wait a few years, that is the model to follow. It's new version is what drove it pricing.

But the point is that Arma did discount, and not after 3 or 4 years. And while they had incredible luck with that zombie mod catching on, if they hadn't had wide distribution and a decent price point they would never have lifted off the ground.

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Steel Beasts - $115, now down from the original $125. It has been around that price since I can remember, plus they charge $20-$30 for upgrade. Just before 3.0 came out they lowered the entry price to $80, but 3.0 upgrade was $40. Now the overall price is back to $115.

Steel Beasts is less hobbyist, and more cheap alternative training for 3rd World nations. Certainly not massive sales. Poor example.

ORIGINAL: thewood1

I think Histwar Grognards is still running over $70 for download only. A lot more for boxed.

They are hardly a frequent or noticeable contributor. Not exactly a business success, or likely to breathe life into the hobby. Beautiful looking games, though.

ORIGINAL: thewood1

I don't count Wargame:European Escalation and Total War. These are low fidelity mass market games, not what I define as wargames. They are more RTS with a war flavor.

Agreed. They are, however, immensely successful, frequently on sale, and show no signs of lagging sales. One month of the sales of just one of them would surely add up to several years of Matrix sales.

The Wargame and TW RTS series are not the future of the hobby, at least not if we wish the hobby to remain history focused (I know I do).

But the fear that many in the community have is...is Matrix the future? Are massively uncompetitive prices the way to attract new blood, or keep current blood involved? Again, I see lots of posts here from customers wishing the developers luck, but it's too rich for their blood. They. Are. Not. Buying. Solely due to price. I'm of the same opinion. How does this phenomena foster the hobby?
dutchman55555
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RE: Pricing Suggestion

Post by dutchman55555 »

ORIGINAL: thewood1

So what if COmmand came out in three pieces scattered over three years. Better. You prefer waiting 2-3 years to complete the game like CMBN?

And Command has taken how many years to develop? Do you actually know? Check out the Wargamer if you're uncertain.
kvob
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RE: Pricing Suggestion

Post by kvob »

ORIGINAL: mjk428
ORIGINAL: kvob

It may seem like whining to come here just to say that I won't be buying, but I think it's important that Matrix can look at this thread and make a comparism on sales gained against sales (potentially) lost.


As long as you're polite about it nobody should take exception. If you why it's too high then that's valuable customer feedback that I expect Matrix takes into consideration.

I agree. My reasoning is quite simple (and hopefully polite): this game is just not worth the gamble at that price (and gamble it is until you install and find yourself satisfied with the product). Matrix have said in the past AARs are the way to go but, quite often, I've bought a game on the strength of an AAR to find it was not nearly as good as it seemed and that much of what persuaded me was the quality of prose rather than product. To me, AAR is as subjective as price where the customer is concerned. That all being said, it brings me full circle to the fact that every game bought is a gamble of some sort. i'm not even sure that demos can give you the full flavour of a game.

I am much more likely to take a punt on cheaper games (not necessarily dirt cheap...after all I still buy AGEOD games despite there now being no real outlet to discount versions since the Matrix/Slitherine/AGEOD merger) but this price is just too high.

Xornox
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RE: Pricing Suggestion

Post by Xornox »

I have the most of Matrix, Battlefront and Paradox games. This tells how fanatic war gamer I am. However, during the last year I have stopped to buy their games. Why?

Paradox has created DLC hell. Eventually their all games have so many DLCs that you are just horrified to re-install the game. It may be whole day task to check what is correct installation procedure and even if you know it, it takes hours and hours to download and install everything. It is like work day...

Battlefront has odd DRM system. I have not really understood it well ever. There are sometimes sudden bugs and errors and you have to ask help from support to solve them. I fear that I lose all games when they go out from business.

Matrix has the best customer support, but they seem to have insane price level nowadays for new games.

It is sad that in this great gaming genre, the best companies have also the worst business practices ever seen in gaming companies. They seem to try to drive customers who have given them huge amount of money out from the market. I can just go to play GTA V or old games from these companies (luckily I have enough them for many coming years).
Aurelian
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RE: Pricing Suggestion

Post by Aurelian »

ORIGINAL: mjk428

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Actually its the only way to deflate the pricing arguments. Command is not over-priced when compared to other complex wargames.

Why do you feel the need to deflate the argument that others are making? Better to inflate your own argument if you want to sway people into the buy column. You won't convince anyone they're wrong on your word alone.

The price is high. No doubt about it. Matrix concedes that when they call it a premium game. The people concerned about the price aren't necessarily saying the game is over-priced. They just don't want to risk learning it's over-priced after paying a premium. At this early stage the jury is still out on whether the game is "worth it" or not. No matter how promising the first impression might be.

It's the same argument made in the other thread linked here. The company explained everything in the other price thread. And yet here we are again, with the same arguments. Futile arguments, as the business model isn't going to change as far as pricing.

And why not deflate an argument when it's based on an old game series that's been out for awhile vs a brand new one. And the comparison isn't even valid as BF does not have anything comparable. Might as well compare WiTP-AE to their SC: Pacific.
Watched a documentary on beavers. Best dam documentary I've ever seen.
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Budge4
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RE: Pricing Suggestion

Post by Budge4 »

Was really looking forward to this game after a stint with the awful Naval War: Artic Circle, but seeing the cost has definitely curbed my enthusiasm. Think im going to have to read a lot of reviews\feedback on this game though before I part with the amount it costs. People mentioning in other posts a lot of lag (Bad Memory of Naval War: Artic Circle) when playing it wont help any future decision to maybe get it either. Know Matrix will support this game a lot better so will just wait and see I think.
Tempest5
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RE: Pricing Suggestion

Post by Tempest5 »

I'll pass.
I see a $50 game.
And that's not the sale price.
Demo. Yeah okay. I played the Command Ops demo-and loved it. But I'm not paying their price either.


There's enough niche wargames I own, that are out there, and will buy/edit/mod to keep me busy.

Good luck to Matrix and the developer. [:)]

histgamer
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RE: Pricing Suggestion

Post by histgamer »

ORIGINAL: Xornox

I have the most of Matrix, Battlefront and Paradox games. This tells how fanatic war gamer I am. However, during the last year I have stopped to buy their games. Why?

Paradox has created DLC hell. Eventually their all games have so many DLCs that you are just horrified to re-install the game. It may be whole day task to check what is correct installation procedure and even if you know it, it takes hours and hours to download and install everything. It is like work day...

Battlefront has odd DRM system. I have not really understood it well ever. There are sometimes sudden bugs and errors and you have to ask help from support to solve them. I fear that I lose all games when they go out from business.

Matrix has the best customer support, but they seem to have insane price level nowadays for new games.

It is sad that in this great gaming genre, the best companies have also the worst business practices ever seen in gaming companies. They seem to try to drive customers who have given them huge amount of money out from the market. I can just go to play GTA V or old games from these companies (luckily I have enough them for many coming years).

If you're playing GTA V you're paying $60 for a game so that's not exactly a cheap game either. Just saying...

Yea the price here will probably cause me to hold out but I can respect the decision, I may not buy the game but as with any product it's the developers choice what they need to charge to recoup costs. Who are we to DEMAND someone who made a product lower the price? It's totally their call and we have no justification in demanding a lower price. We can let them know we'd buy it if it was cheaper but we have no right to expect them to price it as we want, it's a business and it's 100% fair for them to do what they feel they need to do. I'm sure I'll buy it someday on a holiday sale and you'll get my money someday.
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IainMcNeil
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RE: Pricing Suggestion

Post by IainMcNeil »

ORIGINAL: dutchman55555

Really. A list of comparably priced, current, equally complex, non-Matrix PC wargames would be appreciated.

This is the fundamental point. Nobody else is making a game like this. It is completely unique. There is nothing else that is even vaguely similar so any price comparisons are meaningless.
Iain McNeil
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