WITP-AE vs. Other WITP

[popeyeTSM]

Hello, I am a new gamer to the WITP series from Matrix Games. I am usually a tabletop wargamer or Games of that origin with PBEM. I am looking to bridge the gap into computerized gaming. I have been "suffering" through the physical remake of DG's WITP 2nd Edition under the assumption it was the most complex look into that part of the War.

I recently found this particular gem and was wondering if someone could provide a fair comparison who has experience or at least familiarization with both to convince me to jump ship and come over here. I really only have time for one such massive game and would likely play it for years. I will of course just be looking at PvP play, so no need to discuss the AI. Thanks for your time. This looks to have a lot of potential.

[crsutton]

Well, Witp AE is the newer version and has a lot more chrome. The old game is no longer supported while AE is. Pretty much everyone plays AE these days. It is not for the faint of heart as the learning curve is steep but I think it is the best out there. Plenty of opponents to be found here of all skill levels. Go buy it....

[DOCUP]

WITP AE is a great game and well worth the time and money. Great forum with lots of opponents.

[geofflambert]

This guy might fit the profile.  I dunno, what do y'all think?

[wdolson]

The original Matrix WitP is a simpler game (but still quite complex), but AE has a lot of added features to deal with a fair number of the frustrations in the original game. It also adds some complexity. The last few days there has been a discussion here on shipyard repair which is much more complex than the original game.

AE has the added advantage that the forum is very, very active. If you have confusion about something, just ask a question here and you will usually get a polite and decent answer. The debates here can sometimes get pretty furious, but generally this is a pretty polite forum compared to most of the others out there on the net. We've all been through the learning cliff and understand the confusion new players go through. If your goal is to play PBEM, you will probably find even more enthusiastic help. More people play against the AI than PBEM, but the forum has a lot of PBEM players on it and they are always looking for potential new opponents. They want to see any potential future opponent get up to speed as fast as possible.

Bill

[Terminus]

Just look at the level of traffic on the AE forum compared to ALL OTHER forums on this site.

[nashvillen]

Also, an indication of how active this forum is: Six responses that are helpful and on topic within two hours! The respondents total nearly 61k posts, although one of them is 2/3rd of these. Still, you get the idea.

[popeyeTSM]

Yes, I will agree that you have overwhelmed me with passion for the game. While I don't disagree with the ability of the game to stand on its own merits, I think I was too ambiguous in my post. What I meant by Other WITP was specifically Decision Game's massive tabletop WITP (not the original WITP for Matrix Games). I have been fiddling with that for many years and have grown frustrated with it since its been abandoned by its designer in a half-finished state. I think as far as tabletop that is the most complex I think out there.

A decent search found this game, which seems to have a similar focus as the above and likely the most complex for computerized. I'm sold on the game itself. What I am interested in however is if someone with experience on both can advise the advantages of AE versus the above besides the obvious (physical vs computerized). I don't want to muddle my way into AE and realize I would have rather just invested my time in fixing the above and/or attempting to computerize the mechanics. Sorry for the confusion, I just didn't want to overly highlight another game in my Thread title, that was far from my intention. Hopefully someone out there has had the pleasure (or pain) of exposure to both companies games.

And yes, I will definitely only be playing PBEM in hopes of convincing my current wargaming partner to take the plunge with me. Thanks for all the responses so far.

[greg_slith]

You never have to worry about the Paw of Cat knocking your dozens of counters all over the Pacific. Or Fist of Child, or Wrath of Spouce for taking up the dining room table for two years. I am a dice and counter guy myself but the shear scope of this game makes WitP-AE a much better choice. It's even cheaper, too. I've owned this game from back in the Uncommon Valor days and it is by far the most played game I've ever had. Less than a penny a day and I just play against the AI. The AI gives a fun game which is nice since it takes a LONG time to play the entire war but you will find no shortage of opponents here who will give a much better experience. Not so easy to do with a board game. If you can handle the complexity of the cardboard version you can do this. I say this game rocks![:D]

[wdolson]

Comparing the board game to the computer game is kind of difficult. They are very different games. The computer game is not based on the board game. Both are huge and both are very complex, but you will probably find a lot of details are different.

AE has been pretty thoroughly debugged and while it still has a few weaknesses and glitches, overall it works very well and one programmer is still doing support on it. A computer game also has the advantage of keeping track of lots of stuff that is a headache with a board game and a computer game allows for lots of randoms that would just be impossible to deal with if you had to physically roll a die for each one. There are tons of random events: ships can collide, individual planes crash on landing, moving damaged ships to a larger port can spring a leak and sink, and a ton of other random events can happen.

I came of age playing board games. The Battleline/Avalon Hill game Flat Tops was the most complex game I played. AE is many times more complex than that game, but it is far more manageable since it's all stored in 0s and 1s on my computer.

Bill

[zuluhour]

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[Numdydar]

While I have not played DG's War in the Pacific, I have played Strategy and Tactics board game War in the Pacific several times. I find WitP AE a much better experience mainly because fixing mistakes in a computer are far less time consuming that doing this in a board game, especially complex ones. Plus there are no rule interpations needed [:)] of course understanding how the rules work in AE is a different story [:D].

Another plus in the computer is if you do something wrong or against the rules by mistake in the board game and do not notice it until several turns go by, the game is pretty gone by then. Hard to back up and correct it. In AE it just a matter of discussing with your oppenent and see what should be done. Even being able to back the game to a previous save so the game can continue to be fun for everyone. One thing good about playing the AI is you can try all sorts of wild and different things and reload to your heart's content. [:)]

While I loved pushing the peices around, I no longer have the time or space to do so. Plus I now have a severe case of CRS so having the computer track if my moves and combats are valid is a BIG help [:)]

I hope this answers your question better.

[sandman455]

I lived with SPI's WitP for a few years. And I too sometimes miss seeing the maps and playing aids all over the place. Not so sure about the moving of thousands of counters around.

But seriously, there is no comparison at all between the board game and AE. The combat routines are perhaps close. I would think the results might be comparative. Clearly the level of detail is not close. And when you get to the logistic aspects of the computer game, the board game starts to look like tic-tac-toe. The best part is that the computer handles the usage and quantities, you merely need to make sure you get enough to the right locations.

Perhaps the best part of the computer game is the ease at which it immerses you into the conflict. The board game was great but once you go computer, it takes it to a whole different level.

Example:

Long ago, there was a B-17 pilot who flew missions with the 4th Bombardment group of the 13th Air Force. This pilot survived the war and would later go on to have other careers outside of the military. And while it is cool that the guy's squadron, bombardment group and the 13th Air Force are all included in WitP/AE. It is beyond cool that you can actually find the pilot himself in the game. In the stock scenario #1 - which approximates the real war - his starting skill is like 60. A decent pilot whose skill can improve during game play. Yet for my personal modded scenario, I upped his starting skill to 90 - because I just didn't want to think of him getting shot down and having to contemplating a world without Vulcans, Romulans and Gorns.

[popeyeTSM]

Thanks for all the responses everyone. I am more convinced its at least worth a shot. Went ahead and purchased it. Now I have to convince my opponent to do the same.

[LoBaron]

Judging from your posts, you won´t be disappointed. Welcome to the madhouse!