CS + zero float fighters?

[Jorge_Stanbury]

In my Japanese game, I will soon start getting Zero float fighters.

I was thinking on parking some on the CS cruisers; maybe something like half FP+FF; this as for defensive CAP support for the fleet

Would this be a good idea? I understand the performance of float fighters is not great (equivalent to a A5M Claude at most), but better than nothing?

[Commander Stormwolf]

A6M2-N Rufe will be quite useful against unescorted naval sorties

slow, will do badly against escort fighters

normally chitose/chiyoda/nishhin are better off full of jakes

putting Rufe onto the BBs can be smart, when used as mobile artillery. Rufe capable of stopping some nasty PBY catalinas putting torpedoes into the Japanese BB.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

In my Japanese game, I will soon start getting Zero float fighters.

I was thinking on parking some on the CS cruisers; maybe something like half FP+FF; this as for defensive CAP support for the fleet

Would this be a good idea? I understand the performance of float fighters is not great (equivalent to a A5M Claude at most), but better than nothing?

Jorge,

I haven't done this, but it sounds reasonable in theory. Better something than nothing-and perhaps meaningful as a supplemental CAP. Be sure you train up your A6M2-N pilots in Naval Search as well as air combat skills for best effect too.

[Q-Ball]

That's what I do with the CS; keep one Jake unit for Nav Search, and add a Rufe unit. The Rufe is a pretty bad fighter, but it's better than nothing, and every little bit helps.

[HansBolter]

I play the Ironman AI scenarios (mostly DaBabes Ironman C w/ stacking limits) and the AI stations them on the AMCs. This makes the AMCs pretty much immune to long range unescorted bombers which won't even sortie against them.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

A pitty float fighters cannot do "search"; with a range of 7/8 I would quite happily change most of my FPs with Ruffes

FF AMCs sounds interesting, but I am using them defensively, mostly as amphibious assault transport/ escort. They are too easy to sink by even the smallest destroyer

thanks

[SenToku]

Rufe is great plane for first 4 months of the war. Unfortunately it appears on 5th, thus being obselete from the start. By the time you got it opposition will be getting tougher, more organized and is building airfields with more and better aircraft on hand and it gets harded to pull off the kind of landings where A6M2-N would nice support.

It's only good point is versitility, as it is able to fly CAP or naval- and ASW patrols as needed, but it is far from the best AC for any of those missions.

I do not want FF's by the time they arrive. Just my opinion.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

A pitty float fighters cannot do "search"; with a range of 7/8 I would quite happily change most of my FPs with Ruffes

FF AMCs sounds interesting, but I am using them defensively, mostly as amphibious assault transport/ escort. They are too easy to sink by even the smallest destroyer

thanks

You may have garnered the wrong impression of this ship type. As an Allied player who sees the AI use the aggressively I dread the damn things. They routinely SINK even CLs sent against them. I have learned to hunt them with CVs and attempt surface intercepts with DDs only.

[Lokasenna]

I prefer to use my AMCs in amphibious TFs as well. The ones with bigger guns (6" IIRC) help with landing, and against any light surface forces that I might encounter at the LZ. And since they aren't of the "auxiliary" type (xAK/xAP, that's what the x is for, right?), they unload faster. Or at least they seem to unload at the same rate as AKs and APs. That's very valuable. They can also be put into Fast Transport TFs, and typically carry more than your CLs/DDs, so that's valuable to me too.

Due to their lack of noteworthy armor I'm a bit wary of sending them as surface raiders, but one of these days I might grow a pair.


@HansBolter - you must be playing Ironman AI? Someday I'll learn that it sends AMCs between CONUS and Pearl early on route my stuff accordingly.


An addendum in response to the FP-equipped AMCs. IIRC, the Gokoku Maru and her sister(s) actually lose the ability to carry 2 FPs if you upgrade them to AKs. I avoid these upgrades.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

I am playing scenario 1: and my AMC performance on surface-to-surface had been very poor; even against transport/ cargos. Ironman might be making them stronger

I remember early war there are 2 that starts far away in the Pacific. So one got into a fight with a convoy. One unlucky (armor penetrating) hit started a fire... and that was it; fire kept growing until it sunk 2 or 3 days later

[Disco Duck]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

I am playing scenario 1: and my AMC performance on surface-to-surface had been very poor; even against transport/ cargos. Ironman might be making them stronger

I remember early war there are 2 that starts far away in the Pacific. So one got into a fight with a convoy. One unlucky (armor penetrating) hit started a fire... and that was it; fire kept growing until it sunk 2 or 3 days later

They could get lucky.
Here is a video of a German raider sinking the HMAS Sydney.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NCF5c19pIA

[PaxMondo]

Rufe's are very good for intercepting the Catalina's ... AV's with Rufe's on board ... you can kill a lot of allied patrol planes if the allied player isn't careful.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

ORIGINAL: Disco Duck

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

I am playing scenario 1: and my AMC performance on surface-to-surface had been very poor; even against transport/ cargos. Ironman might be making them stronger

I remember early war there are 2 that starts far away in the Pacific. So one got into a fight with a convoy. One unlucky (armor penetrating) hit started a fire... and that was it; fire kept growing until it sunk 2 or 3 days later

They could get lucky.
Here is a video of a German raider sinking the HMAS Sydney.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NCF5c19pIA

Gamewise, that can only happen to Knavey, if he is playing Allies

[inqistor]

RUFE is actually pretty good in AE. In original game it could not compete with anything, but here you can defeat P-40 with it.

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I prefer to use my AMCs in amphibious TFs as well. The ones with bigger guns (6" IIRC) help with landing, and against any light surface forces that I might encounter at the LZ. And since they aren't of the "auxiliary" type (xAK/xAP, that's what the x is for, right?), they unload faster. Or at least they seem to unload at the same rate as AKs and APs. That's very valuable. They can also be put into Fast Transport TFs, and typically carry more than your CLs/DDs, so that's valuable to me too.

This is probably because of their size, but I observe, that AMCs are main target for CD guns, when they are in amphibious TF, and since they have no armor they have hard time surviving. So they can be used that way, but only against enemy without much guns.

And I agree, that they are very poor at surface combat, but you can safely use them as raiders in few first months (preferably far from Allied CV positions)

[SenToku]

Rufe is mostly useless. Regular version of A6M2 is far better fighter and since Zero can carry drop tanks it can preform anything Rufe can by LRCAP (including traps for enemy patrol aircraft) and by the time you would have an operational A6M2-N squardon (say June '42), you will have airstrips/aviation support built on all the relevant areas. So to use aircraft factories/resources to build a jack-of-all-trades (master of none) plane while you could be building expert machines for each mission Rufe can do?

To me answer is obvious, never build/use Rufe. CS ships serve me best as mobile naval search/ASW bases, first supporting advances by bringing search planes right up to front and then hunting damaged subs trying to leave after being damaged by other assets and guiding surface assets to it (never let them get home!), before being turned into CVLs. Rufe would limit this use with shorter range searches/lack of bombs.

As for AMCs and landings, shouldn't you be using the aircraft as spotter A/C?

[Amoral]

Because Rufe is the earliest availabled plane in the A6M line many players will build 10-20 R&D factories for it. If you don't have plans for the Rufe you would upconvert the factories to a65m as soon as they are fully repaired, but there is no reason you can't leave them as Rufe factories for 15 days in order to get the Rufe available in Apr 42.

You need a total of 300 Research points to advance the Rufe to April. If you have 15x 30size factories then it takes only 10 days with engine bonus. If you have any plans to use the Rufe, it might be worth delaying the introduction of the A6M5 by 10 to 20 days to get them 3 months early.

Summary: Any agressive R&D plan will have a side effect of making the Rufe available much earlier than the default arrival date.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: inqistor

RUFE is actually pretty good in AE. In original game it could not compete with anything, but here you can defeat P-40 with it.

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I prefer to use my AMCs in amphibious TFs as well. The ones with bigger guns (6" IIRC) help with landing, and against any light surface forces that I might encounter at the LZ. And since they aren't of the "auxiliary" type (xAK/xAP, that's what the x is for, right?), they unload faster. Or at least they seem to unload at the same rate as AKs and APs. That's very valuable. They can also be put into Fast Transport TFs, and typically carry more than your CLs/DDs, so that's valuable to me too.

This is probably because of their size, but I observe, that AMCs are main target for CD guns, when they are in amphibious TF, and since they have no armor they have hard time surviving. So they can be used that way, but only against enemy without much guns.

And I agree, that they are very poor at surface combat, but you can safely use them as raiders in few first months (preferably far from Allied CV positions)

Andy AI uses AMC's really effectively in his Ironman series. Of course they have 20" main guns, 40kt speed, nuke powered for unlimited range, exp=80, .... [:D][:D][:D]

[&o][&o][&o]

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: inqistor

RUFE is actually pretty good in AE. In original game it could not compete with anything, but here you can defeat P-40 with it.

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I prefer to use my AMCs in amphibious TFs as well. The ones with bigger guns (6" IIRC) help with landing, and against any light surface forces that I might encounter at the LZ. And since they aren't of the "auxiliary" type (xAK/xAP, that's what the x is for, right?), they unload faster. Or at least they seem to unload at the same rate as AKs and APs. That's very valuable. They can also be put into Fast Transport TFs, and typically carry more than your CLs/DDs, so that's valuable to me too.

This is probably because of their size, but I observe, that AMCs are main target for CD guns, when they are in amphibious TF, and since they have no armor they have hard time surviving. So they can be used that way, but only against enemy without much guns.

And I agree, that they are very poor at surface combat, but you can safely use them as raiders in few first months (preferably far from Allied CV positions)

Andy AI uses AMC's really effectively in his Ironman series. Of course they have 20" main guns, 40kt speed, nuke powered for unlimited range, exp=80, .... [:D][:D][:D]

[&o][&o][&o]

The first time I played Ironman, I just about crapped my pants when one AMC tore apart a TK convoy going from LA to Pearl in late December. Taught me to escort everything in Ironman. Those things show up anytime, anywhere.

[obvert]

I like the Rufe, but it's not great against fighters. Still it is surprising and used on the CS cruisers with the main fleet CVs these can be great at low level interception of TBs in a big brawl. Any extra fighters on CAP if the numbers are close between the sides is helpful. I've used them on a dot base as well both as Cap and to get some escorts closer to the action for long distance strikes. Also worked well.

[Mike Solli]

In my opinion, every weapon system has it's value. I like the Rufe because it can operate at level 0 airfields. The chutai are small (only 9) so they can operate effectively with only an AS company. In my game I invaded Wessel Island (off the coast of Australia) for a specific reason. It was a dot hex and I took it with paratroopers. I dumped an AS company there. I let it sit until I was ready to invade Merauke. The invasion fleet stopped at Wessel Island and I placed a chutai of Rufes there for CAP for the TF. 8 unescorted Dauntlesses flew against the TF and 7 were shot down by the Rufes. They did their job perfectly.

Now, the invasion was a failure, but that is a different story. [:D]