AFV production / week

[AlexSF]

Am I reading wrong or the total weekly production of German tanks in June 41 is something like 42 units ??
This is what I see on the production screen at the beginning of the Campaign scenario. It can't be right.

[Bozo_the_Clown]

Total German armor production in 41 was 3,623 so the number in the game seems reasonable. What's your problem with the numbers? Are they too high or too low?

[SigUp]

Total production of tanks in Germany June 1941: 15 Panzer II (ingame 16), 133 Panzer III (ingame 48, gets upped to 104 eventually), 38 Panzer IV (ingame 36), 65 Panzer 38(t) (ingame 44, gets upped to 60), 56 Stugs (ingame 24, gets upped to 32).

Numbers for July 1941: 21 Panzer II, 127 Panzer III, 38 Panzer IV, 65 Panzer 38(t), 34 Stugs.

The only numbers that are off, are the numbers for Panzer III.

[AlexSF]

hmm, seems to me as very little 41 tanks/week. But actually if you multiply by 52 weeks it's about 2100 tanks. Still 1500 short of historical numbers. Some German factories upgrade so I guess it will be more than 2100 at the end.
Oh well, I guess 41 units per week is not that crazy after all

[carlkay58]

Remember that 3600 is for the full year while the game only covers the last half year. Production priorities changed during 1941 for the Germans so some of the tanks stopped building by May 41 and the factories were retooled to new models. Some of the production in July 41 were still being retooled and coming online later in the year.

[SigUp]

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

Remember that 3600 is for the full year while the game only covers the last half year. Production priorities changed during 1941 for the Germans so some of the tanks stopped building by May 41 and the factories were retooled to new models. Some of the production in July 41 were still being retooled and coming online later in the year.

Still, Panzer III production is too low for the Germans in 1941. Panzer III production figures for the second half of 1941 was 127 in July, 179 in August, 178 in September, 164 in October, 206 in November and finally 171 in December. The maximum capacity of the Panzer III L/42 production is 26 per turn, so 104 per month, which is far lower than the historical average for the time perio. Stug production is also slightly lower than historically, but not significantly. Panzer IV numbers are good for July, but then the gap also widens slightly

[AlexSF]

I've been just reading the memories of Heinz Guderian ("Erinnerungen eines Soldaten")published in the early 50's. According to him and on the basis of the victory in the West, Hitler ordered a production of 800 to 1000 tanks per month but the Army Ordnance office told him that it would cost about 2 bln of Marks and 100,000 skilled workers and specialists ! He had to scratch those plans...
And concerning those Pzr III Hitler specificaly gave orders to equip them with 50mm\L60 but the Ordnance office without notifying him actually mounted 50mm\L42 (much shorter and lower velocity hence less armor penetration as everybody knows here:)). Guderian goes on how only in February 41 Hitler was finaly told of the change and how he obviously freaked out and was still talking about that incident years later...
I strongly advise that book to any Eastern Front fanatic, a real mine of information.

[SigUp]

The German war economy from 1939 to early 1942 was dominated by conflicting interests between party, economy, Wehrmacht and civilian authorities, bureaucratic inefficiency, weakness in the decision-making process, inexperience and political objections. It took the crisis of the Winter 1941-42 to finally kick in a process to concentrate power in the hands of Todt (after his death Speer). So the issues Guderian mentioned were only scratching on the surface.

[Walloc]

Denniss would hafta step in as i presume he knows the reasons behind the lacking PzIII. That said there could be some reasons for this.
2nd and 5th Pz Divs arrive at turn 14 with 105 PzIII and 20 PzIV each.

As Pz reg. 3 losses all its panzer's comming back from Marita it has to be fully reconstituted. This happens during the game so u get these for "free" as they arent deducted from the production.
Also Pz Reg 31 in effect losses 1 coy that has to be reconstituted in the same periode. Apart from replacing the other losses from Marita. Again u get these for "free"

Then 5th and 8th pz Reg has 2 companies each formed, for 4 Companies in all that is part of the reorganization of 5th Leicthes Divs into 21st Panzer. This is done from 15th sep during the game and the tank for this would have had to come out of the production. This is beyond what else is send as replacements for DAK. For June and july combined those numbers btw are 23 Pz III and 11 PzIVs


Also the historic dec number includes the 50L60 production and in game the potential in dec gets to be 3 factories of 23 for 69 or up 276+ a month(some months has 5 weeks). In jan the historic number is for example 159 below the 200+ u produce by then in game. Same is true in the following months but to a lesser degree.

In the case of stugs i without having checked it suspect the same is true a number of stug abt arrive in game in 41. The vehicles to have formed these would have had to come from some where.

I dont know if these are some of the descrepiencies as said Denniss would have to fill in the blanks. it just seems some of it could be explained by among others above reasons.

ORIGINAL: AlexisSF

I've been just reading the memories of Heinz Guderian ("Erinnerungen eines Soldaten")published in the early 50's. According to him and on the basis of the victory in the West, Hitler ordered a production of 800 to 1000 tanks per month but the Army Ordnance office told him that it would cost about 2 bln of Marks and 100,000 skilled workers and specialists ! He had to scratch those plans...
And concerning those Pzr III Hitler specificaly gave orders to equip them with 50mm\L60 but the Ordnance office without notifying him actually mounted 50mm\L42 (much shorter and lower velocity hence less armor penetration as everybody knows here:)). Guderian goes on how only in February 41 Hitler was finaly told of the change and how he obviously freaked out and was still talking about that incident years later...
I strongly advise that book to any Eastern Front fanatic, a real mine of information.

Reading memoirs certainly has merit and i read most of them. That said, as far as they are a mine of infomation one has to take most of the figurs in those with large grain of salt. They are notorisouly inaccurate. When comparing numbers given in many of them and compare them to the germans own records many times they are clearly flawed.

If u want to know some thing about german tank productions and figurs i would suggest some thing like Thomas Jentz's, Panzer Truppen which is generally excellent and fairly affordble.

Kind regards,

Rasmus