hardcore supply rules

[LiquidSky]

Hardcore supply (and normal supply for that matter) works by pretending that the supply is a unit with 250AP points.

For Easy Mode Supply, it starts at STAVKA/OKH and moves directly to the unit following the easiest path. Rail lines are essentially 0 (in that you can move several hexes along one for only 1AP cost). Roads are 1 AP each to move along. Clear hexes are 15AP. Crossing rivers are either 25,50,75 or 100 depending on the size of the river.

For Hardcore Mode Supply, that virtual supply unit has to move from STAVKA/OKH to FRONT/ARMY to ARMY/CORP then to the unit. But the lower level HQ's pay 1 AP for the Rail, and 3 AP's for the road...the rest are the same.

When that Virtual Supply Counter gets to the unit, the actual amount of supply will be a percentage. If you spent 100 AP's or less then you get full supply. If you spent 100-150 then you get 75%, if you spent 150-200 then you get 50% and if you spent 200-25AP's you get 25%.

Essentially, if you get full or 75% supply, you should have lots of AP's for your units, and attacking will be pretty much normal. At 50% you will notice a drop in AP's, and can do some limited movement, but probably not attack. (or sit and defend). At 25% you will be dislodged from your position fairly easily.


If you think of the two ends of the scale..at one end, we have roads in every hex. At the other, no roads....

With roads in everyhex, supply becomes trivial, as you can be 100 hexes (1000 km) and be in very good supply (75% or 100%).

With a connected road net every three hexes, you will always be within one hex of a road, which drops the range to around 85 hexes.

With a connected road net every five hexes, you will always be within two hexes of a road, which drops the range to around 60 hexes. (thats 600km). I feel that this is pretty much what the game is giving us.

With no roads at all, you have to be within 8-9 hexes as the supply movement costs are more. 80- 90 km away from your HQ.

This is assuming clear hexes and optimal placement of HQ's.

Something I havent mentioned yet either, is that logistical centers will subtract AP's from the movement cost...but this usually just help reduce the STAVKA/OKH to FRONT/ARMY portion of the trip to less then 15AP's (if the front/army hq is on the railline)

I feel that these roads on the map are roads capable of high volume traffic, as you can and will be supplying whole armies along them. The small scale roads, manufactured roads, country roads etc....are represented by the 15AP cost to move supply over clear hexes. The game will allow us to adjust that number for both Soviets and Germans, so we could have a different number if it could be shown that the Russians were more adept at moving supply cross country. In fact all the costs could be different for both sides.

In practice (probably around 120 turns of playing so far) my friend and I have noticed that the soviets suffer more from the Hardcore rules, due to Geography, and army size/HQ ratio. And in winter, Geography will no longer come into play as rivers become frozen and free to cross for supply (like having a bridge in every hex). And the Russians could have more HQ's built...so when the Russians are on the offensive, they should not have supply problems.

[LiquidSky]

I should add that I figured out how to use event code to build a bridge (or a road for that matter). But I am still trying to figure out how to choose what hexside to build it on. I could put 6 cards in, one for each hexside...and have the others removed when you play one, to allow only one per turn. I could even check the hex to make sure there is an engineer in it, and that both sides are 'owned' by the person playing the card... but was hoping for something a bit more elegant.

[canuck64]

Liquid, thanks for the tutorials, that really helped make explicit something I understood but only fuzzily.

Now I've begun looking at the log, and I see how the log might help me offset supply issues as they occur.

My question is what about oil? I'm 2 weeks in and there's oil being produced, but I don't know where it's going-I do know I have none. This is for either side, as I'm trying out different things.

SO I have tinkered some with unit characteristics, usage and so forth. It's my issue here for sure, but are there enhanced logging possibilities or some method of tracking down what the oil is being used on?

As well, though this might have been discussed, I see units not getting supply and then a purportedly simple reason expressed as a pair of values in parentheses in the logs. e.g.: (1, -4). Is there anything to be gleaned from these numeric values?

Thanks for all your hard work on deciphering on the behind-the-scenes stuff.

[LiquidSky]

I cant seem to run out of oil...and neither can my opponent. Oil is used whenever you fly a plane, or move a motorized unit. You gain oil at the beginning of your turn. You can hit the STATS button at the top, to see the oil reserves.

I know he has adjusted the amount of oil the Axis gets (downwards) so it may come into play now. But in the game I am in, I use less per turn then I get in, so I will never run out. And I move practically all my air, and most of panzers every turn.

Ahh...in the autoreinforcelog.txt the (-1,4) doesnt show supply movement, it shows replacement points moving. And I havent figured out what the (x,y) number is in parenthesis, unless it is supposed to be the coordinates the unit is in. If so, I should add that your opponent calculates at the end of his turn all your supply/reinforcement and stuff when he hits the end turn button, and so the generated report for you is on his computer.

Something I have discovered is that you can build bridges anywhere you want! Change Rulevar 320 from 1 to 0. It will allow an engineer to build a bridge over any river, and no longer require a road to exist before hand. Problem is, so far it also builds a rail/road link between the two hexes as well. Although that may be because I have a rail line to connect it to.

[Redmarkus5]

That's great news! Can they be set to build rail and road as well? Perhaps we need a couple of new road types; dirt road and log road, plus a new bridge type, 'engineer bridge', all with a higher AP cost for movement and supply?

[freeboy]

this should be stickied

[cato12]

so whats the general consensus to these supply rules? are most using using hardcore or default?

just to follow up on my query.

"We noticed in our game that the russians run out of supply way too easily, so in the event code 25) under Supply & Reinf called CAMP+SMALL Soviet Supply I changed line 9) from a 3 to a 4 so that the soviets go from getting 3/4 total supply every turn to full 4/4 supply. I should add, that we used Free Setup, which meant we had the no soviet supply bug on the first turn."

is this still required as i assume this bug no longer exists?

[sandman2575]

Is anyone else having trouble getting this to work? I followed LiquidSky's directions to a tee (correcting as Oliver34 noticed, "0" for disable, not 1) -- I disable the "Easy Supply" RuleVar and save as a separate scenario. When I load up that scenario, though, the hardcore supply rules will not take effect. I click on a Corps HQ and supply overlay and still get the "1 AP" indication (maybe it's 2, can't remember -- but it's definitely not '43 AP" or something to that effect) -- and when I click on a unit, it's still clearly tracing according to the "Easy" supply of OKH --> direct to unit.

I'm playing v106h2, latest patch

??

[Capitaine]

ORIGINAL: sandman2575

Is anyone else having trouble getting this to work? I followed LiquidSky's directions to a tee (correcting as Oliver34 noticed, "0" for disable, not 1) -- I disable the "Easy Supply" RuleVar and save as a separate scenario. When I load up that scenario, though, the hardcore supply rules will not take effect. I click on a Corps HQ and supply overlay and still get the "1 AP" indication (maybe it's 2, can't remember -- but it's definitely not '43 AP" or something to that effect) -- and when I click on a unit, it's still clearly tracing according to the "Easy" supply of OKH --> direct to unit.

I'm playing v106h2, latest patch

??

Me too. I just checked my game and the get the same thing. Hardcore supply doesn't seem to be taking effect when it's set to "0" in the editor.

[Vic]

It still works correctly. Check the unit details tab to see that subordinate HQs are receiving and sending out supply.

You can also notes it works on the much longer turn startup time due to all the calculations.

Best regards,
Vic

[Capitaine]

Ah, okay. For my part the problem was that I wasn't saving the change to the scenario file. Once I did that the supply AP numbers looked hardcore as they should.

[BigDuke66]

How does the AI work with the hardcore supply rule?

[cato12]

ORIGINAL: cato12

so whats the general consensus to these supply rules? are most using using hardcore or default?

just to follow up on my query.

"We noticed in our game that the russians run out of supply way too easily, so in the event code 25) under Supply & Reinf called CAMP+SMALL Soviet Supply I changed line 9) from a 3 to a 4 so that the soviets go from getting 3/4 total supply every turn to full 4/4 supply. I should add, that we used Free Setup, which meant we had the no soviet supply bug on the first turn."

is this still required as i assume this bug no longer exists?

Im about to start playing DC again and remembered this thread. Any chance of an answer?

[Michael T]

Haven't bought the game yet. But if I do these supply rules would be the only way I would play.

So are people using them and if so do they work properly?

If you mod a scenario for Hard Supply for PBEM or Server play does your opponent need to do anything at his end, that is edit files?

As an aside, I have waded thru many posts. And the game gets a lot of positive feedback. So why is this forum so quiet and why no recent AAR's?

Could it be the scope is limiting replay value?

I am definately going to try out DC3 from the get go as a full campaign in Russia is my favourite kind of game. But am still reluctant to buy this one (Case Blue) due to the lack of activity/interest around here.

[RCHarmon]

I have been trying these changes out. The AI doesn't like it very well, but against a human opponent these rules should be the norm.

[Michael T]

Yes they are much better.

[Vic]

ORIGINAL: Michael T
If you mod a scenario for Hard Supply for PBEM or Server play does your opponent need to do anything at his end, that is edit files?

Sorry for the late reply. But no. The DC system saves everything into the saves files including the whole scenario. So your opponent actually doesnt even need to have the scenario file, just the relevant graphics and sound assets.

Best,
Vic

[RCHarmon]

This thread really needs to be stickied.

[RCHarmon]

I have noticed that the 6th Soviet army in the Trapp.... scenario is really hurting with hard core supply rules. This army is supposed to be attacking. Any thoughts here?

[Belphegor]

We're attempting to set this scenario up. Each time we've saved the new scenario and started Manstein's 11 Army has ended up first turn with ahistoric reinforcements... usually a luftwaffe unit and some Romanians. What have we missed in doing the setup?