Can Japan become self sufficient in oil?

[Jorge_Stanbury]

I am playing scenario 1 as Japan

I have noticed that even with all the SRA, Burma and other conquerable areas (China has some oil, North America too, but cannot be reasonably included);
Japan would never be capable to become self sufficient in oil. In other words, Witp tracker message" "limited by oil centres" will always be negative, even if no additional HI is added

I guess my first question is: am I right?

has someone calculated for how long Japan could maintain full capacity?

[wdolson]

I don't know if anyone has calculated how long, but not long.

Japan's shortage of oil close to home and the US's oil embargo is the trigger that started the war in the first place. Japan had about 6 month of oil stored at the beginning of the war. Its oil production was pretty much down in the noise.

Bill

[Lokasenna]

It's really not possible to erase your Oil deficit. Even if you conquer much of India, it just won't happen. You can turn some refineries off to do it...

Example: screenshot of my current game vs. AI. I have 280 refinery points in Japan turned off so I don't run out of Oil there before I feel like it. I have 2.6M fuel stored and rising, so I'm not feeling starved there either. I doubt you could do anything like this against a human (and would probably be wise to leave the refineries chugging until they're empty, as then you don't possibly end up with strat-bombed Refineries and a bunch of Oil sitting around).

I've conquered Burma, and do not have Ledo. I have proceeded as far as Lanchow in northern China (which is giving me +3 Oil over Refineries due to damage there).

[HexHead]

The grand Totals are interesting to this AFB - I had no idea Japan could be so strapped.

My limited experience to June 42 shows me that Bullwinkle is right when he starts thinking of late game Allied Supply in terms of a million Supply is a 'unit'. Even approaching mid 42 the issue is distribution, not necessarily source management.

6.7 million Fuel and 4.6 million Supply in mid 43 is telling, IMHO.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: HexHead

The grand Totals are interesting to this AFB - I had no idea Japan could be so strapped.

My limited experience to June 42 shows me that Bullwinkle is right when he starts thinking of late game Allied Supply in terms of a million Supply is a 'unit'. Even approaching mid 42 the issue is distribution, not necessarily source management.

6.7 million Fuel and 4.6 million Supply in mid 43 is telling, IMHO.

Take it with a boulder of salt, as I made some early screwups. I'm sure I could have much more Supply than I do now if I'd played better. Probably >5.5M. Also, this is Scen 2.

On Fuel, I could've saved some moving around, but that's probably it.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Are you sure turning off refineries will reduce oil deficit? I might be wrong... and it is late night, but it should be Heavy Industry what needs to be turned off to reduce the deficit (and that is not a wise option). Turning off refinery will only delay things at the global level (at the regional is good, in my game I have a lot of excess refinery capacity so, it is a good idea to manage where do to get the resulting fuel/ supply).

But the most interesting conclusion is that it really doesn't make a lot of sense to expand ahistorically; getting India or Australia HI will only increase the oil deficit; better to simply build a defensive ring and wait

[Lokasenna]

I think you are switching around Oil and Fuel in your understanding. Oil feeds into refineries, Fuel into HI. You absolutely need the refineries in Japan running if you want to run all of the HI there as well - and you'll still need to ship in Fuel.

You can reduce HI production to reduce Fuel need (I've done this in my AI game as well, because it's the AI and I'm not done conquering yet!), which would also allow you to reduce Refinery production in Japan, which reduces your Oil deficit in Japan.

As it stands, you'll have enough Refineries to supply the HI, globally - that's why you don't see a "Limited by Refineries" on the Reports tab of the Industry dataset in Tracker. However, you don't have enough global Oil points, which is why you see "Limited by Oil Centres". And that will never go away, unless you do the above reductions in HI/Refinery production.

[PaxMondo]

There are more refineries in the game than oil centers, so the Witp tracker message" "limited by oil centres" will generally always show. But, you shouldn't be paying attention to that. What you do care about is fuel, not oil. Fuel can be obtained in sufficient quantity to not only stabilize the economy, and actually grow a stockpile. (emphasis added)

The can portion here is entirely player dependent. How much you move your navy and how much HI you build will determine your fuel usage. Refer to Mike Solli (or myself) for conservative plans. Many others have far more aggressive build schemes.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

There are more refineries in the game than oil centers, so the Witp tracker message" "limited by oil centres" will generally always show. But, you shouldn't be paying attention to that. What you do care about is fuel, not oil. Fuel can be obtained in sufficient quantity to not only stabilize the economy, and actually grow a stockpile. (emphasis added)

The can portion here is entirely player dependent. How much you move your navy and how much HI you build will determine your fuel usage. Refer to Mike Solli (or myself) for conservative plans. Many others have far more aggressive build schemes.

Indeed. I'm favoring a conservative approach lately. Other than expanding HI in Java, I would advocate not expanding (or repairing) it anywhere.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

thanks for the answers

I am also on the conservative side on expansion, even against my AI opponent;

That said, it is very hard to restraint the use of CVs... it is very tempting (and fun) to launch raids and wreck some havoc

[JeffroK]

I too thought I had to clear the red number in the oil screen!!

But I'm going to keep raiding with KB until it sinks or I run out of oil, likely to get sunk first!

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

thanks for the answers

I am also on the conservative side on expansion, even against my AI opponent;

That said, it is very hard to restraint the use of CVs... it is very tempting (and fun) to launch raids and wreck some havoc

Well, you have to use your CVs. If it is anything like the Allies, then it is the BBs that really gobble up the fuel. I found it was a mistake to send my old BBs to the South Pacific theater in early-mid 42 (the only time the Allies are a bit short of fuel[8D]) because they just ate up all my fuel stocks. However, we all need to use our carriers and they can just barely operate early war if the BBs are left home. This was the historical reality for Japan as well. Even early in the war during the Solomon's campaign the Japanese fleet had to reign in BB operations due to fuel shortages.

[morejeffs]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

thanks for the answers

I am also on the conservative side on expansion, even against my AI opponent;

That said, it is very hard to restraint the use of CVs... it is very tempting (and fun) to launch raids and wreck some havoc

Well, you have to use your CVs. If it is anything like the Allies, then it is the BBs that really gobble up the fuel. I found it was a mistake to send my old BBs to the South Pacific theater in early-mid 42 (the only time the Allies are a bit short of fuel[8D]) because they just ate up all my fuel stocks. However, we all need to use our carriers and they can just barely operate early war if the BBs are left home. This was the historical reality for Japan as well. Even early in the war during the Solomon's campaign the Japanese fleet had to reign in BB operations due to fuel shortages.

Well, you have to use your CVs. If it is anything like the Allies, then it is the BBs that really gobble up the fuel. I found it was a mistake to send my old BBs to the South Pacific theater in early-mid 42 (the only time the Allies are a bit short of fuel) because they just ate up all my fuel stocks. However, we all need to use our carriers and they can just barely operate early war if the BBs are left home. This was the historical reality for Japan as well. Even early in the war during the Solomon's campaign the Japanese fleet had to reign in BB operations due to fuel shortages.

[morejeffs]

Sorry...I just wanted to add that at one point the IJN drained fuel from the Yamato so other ships could operate during the Solomons campaign

[Lokasenna]

The Kongos seem to get decent fuel efficiency, at least... Honestly, the IJN suffers more from short-legged escorts (most DDs are 5000 or lower endurance) than from ships that are fuel hogs.

At least, I find that to be more annoying than keeping fuel in my BBs.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

In my AI game, I am in March 1942, so far I have not experienced fleet fuel issues since my BBs are mostly in Singapore; CVs are currently raiding the indian ocean. The idea was to cripple the RN before moving all assets west for the inevitable US offensive. But after seeing the fuel consumption rates, I will definitively need to start building major fuel reserves in Rabaul/ Truk and be careful on BBs

As per short legged DDs; my KB uses only the 6000 endurance DDs; and I use KB conservatively, always close to a forward base (I won't try Midway or equivalent). Keeping KB close home also allows me to use the fast AOs as tankers from Singapore to home islands