Gnarly Asian Roads

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Symon
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Gnarly Asian Roads

Post by Symon »

Ok, so here's part of the movement matrix for the new road system.
Image
Lots of new things. Should slow operations down a whole lot. Two Babes groups are using it and love it. I haven't used it much so don't know how it will play in a normal GC game environment; probably not very well. But it is an interesting alternative. Am porting it to the normal game standards. Will continue to show-and-tell and discuss.

ps, oh, yeah: the different RRs only get a right-of-way road in specific terrain. The bonus columns say what and when.

pps, keep forgetting to mention the details; two new road types, main 2 and secondary 2. This allows for interesting movement rates in mountains and jungles and bears! oh my!

Ciao. JWE
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Mac Linehan
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RE: Gnarly Asian Roads

Post by Mac Linehan »

John -

I have installed the earlier zip "Extended Map Asian Roads" into my Big Babes game; am I correct in assuming that this matrix applies to that zip?

All of this is most definitely appealing, after some study the numbers make sense.

I really like the additional road classifications - main 2 and secondary 2; but am not clear on the railroad bonuses:

If understand correctly, the table shows, for example, that in Jungle Rough Terrain, a Major RR would allow right of way at the Minor RR rate of movement?

Thank you for your effort - all of this is just awesome and gives a whole new level of realism to the game!

Mac
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Symon
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RE: Gnarly Asian Roads

Post by Symon »

ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan
John -
I have installed the earlier zip "Extended Map Asian Roads" into my Big Babes game; am I correct in assuming that this matrix applies to that zip?
Mac
Hi Mac,

No. What's on the website is phase 1. If it works out like I hope, it will eventually be folded into the regular Extended Map system in place of the present pwhexe.dat file. Only has changes to the extent of the road network; no changes to the actual road characteristics.

This is phase 2, for masochists, hardcore realism freaks, and other mentally disturbed individuals [8D] This will be a stand-alone optional pwhexe.dat file and will include road characteristics changes.

The matrix is in the formative stages. I expect some further changes and many roads will require manual adjustment. It’s a matrix so that our hex editing system can gang-change roads by a logical AND of road-type and terrain-type. Main and secondary roads will drop down the ladder (become more and more constricted) depending on the terrain in the hex, the previous hex, and the next hex. So a main road may become a secondary road in the mountains; even a secondary 2, in specific places.

Likewise, certain railroads do not offer any inherent “track” bonus when traversing certain types of terrain. BTW, “minor” is just a rename of the old “track”. So one might well have a railroad of sorts going from base A to base B, but no road, thereby forcing LCUs to move and consume at the native hex terrain rate.

Hope this makes it a bit clearer. [:)]

Ciao. John
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John 3rd
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RE: Gnarly Asian Roads

Post by John 3rd »

ORIGINAL: Symon
ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan
John -
I have installed the earlier zip "Extended Map Asian Roads" into my Big Babes game; am I correct in assuming that this matrix applies to that zip?
Mac
Hi Mac,

No. What's on the website is phase 1. If it works out like I hope, it will eventually be folded into the regular Extended Map system in place of the present pwhexe.dat file. Only has changes to the extent of the road network; no changes to the actual road characteristics.

This is phase 2, for masochists, hardcore realism freaks, and other mentally disturbed individuals [8D] This will be a stand-alone optional pwhexe.dat file and will include road characteristics changes.

The matrix is in the formative stages. I expect some further changes and many roads will require manual adjustment. It’s a matrix so that our hex editing system can gang-change roads by a logical AND of road-type and terrain-type. Main and secondary roads will drop down the ladder (become more and more constricted) depending on the terrain in the hex, the previous hex, and the next hex. So a main road may become a secondary road in the mountains; even a secondary 2, in specific places.

Likewise, certain railroads do not offer any inherent “track” bonus when traversing certain types of terrain. BTW, “minor” is just a rename of the old “track”. So one might well have a railroad of sorts going from base A to base B, but no road, thereby forcing LCUs to move and consume at the native hex terrain rate.

Hope this makes it a bit clearer. [:)]

Ciao. John

I fit into "the hardcore realism freaks!" I printed that chart off and LIKE IT. Nice work.

John: Do you think this is far better then what you sent a couple of weeks ago? We're about to start playtesting RA 6.0 and I'll use whatever you recommend.
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Symon
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RE: Gnarly Asian Roads

Post by Symon »

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
I fit into "the hardcore realism freaks!" I printed that chart off and LIKE IT. Nice work.

John: Do you think this is far better then what you sent a couple of weeks ago? We're about to start playtesting RA 6.0 and I'll use whatever you recommend.
Thought you would appreciate it, you are almost as demented as I am [8D]

I think what you have now is the way to go. Phase 2 isn't so much better as it is totally different. I don't think phase 2 is something that the general playing public would go for, so I wouldn't use it as a standard in any mod that a modder really wants to put "in play".

I think keeping it as an optional, if-you-are-totally-insane-then-use-this-file, kinda thing is better. It's a pwhexe.dat file so it can be swapped in-and-out with the regular one (the one you got) at any time in an on-going game, so you can dink around with it. But I recommend using phase 1 as your 'standard' or basis.

Ciao. JWE
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John 3rd
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RE: Gnarly Asian Roads

Post by John 3rd »

I like this the new road changes a bunch. Seems to allow a bit more realism to come into play, however, I also like the earlier work as well. Hmmmm....'tis a puzzlement.' [:'(]
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Symon
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RE: Gnarly Asian Roads

Post by Symon »

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
I like this the new road changes a bunch. Seems to allow a bit more realism to come into play, however, I also like the earlier work as well. Hmmmm....'tis a puzzlement.' [:'(]
Go with the earlier. Babes is going with the earlier. Besides the insane one will take quite a bit more time; way more time than you got with all them people you got banging on your door [:D]

When I'm done, you will be one of the first to get a copy.

Ciao. JWE
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PaxMondo
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RE: Gnarly Asian Roads

Post by PaxMondo »

John,

This looks really good. Definitely want to add this into my mod. Thanks for sharing and will be watching as it gets refined and implemented.
Pax
Mac Linehan
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RE: Gnarly Asian Roads

Post by Mac Linehan »

Hi, John!

Am back to school bus driving; therefore not on the computer much during the week; didn't mean to take so long to get back to you.

Very clear explanation; I do understand.

I am probably stating the obvious, but the whole reason this mod - in both versions - appeals so much to me, is that it affects the game at a very basic but hard hitting level; the amount of supply that flows from A to B in a particular geographical area that is served by a rail or road net of varying levels of development.

Logistics often defines the amount of combat weight at the sharp end of the stick.

There is a reason that old WW2 photos of China show thousands of coolies carrying loads on their backs...

Please count me in for the hardcore mode - it will be good.

Mac

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DOCUP
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RE: Gnarly Asian Roads

Post by DOCUP »

Yes, I'm needy. I just DL'ed the map. I want to make sure I have it DL'ed right. Should there be a visual difference or another way I can tell that I installed it properly?
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Skyros
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RE: Gnarly Asian Roads

Post by Skyros »

Hit the R key and see how the roads changed.
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Symon
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RE: Gnarly Asian Roads

Post by Symon »

Thanks all for waiting so patiently. Few more weeks of tweaking and testing and it should be done. Intersection of road types is the biggie; totally manual, and boy-oh-boy what a pita. Burma road is still completely functional, but Burma proper no longer acts like the LA freeway complex. Long and nasty slogs in both directions with darn few river crossings

Paradigm is for Korea, Manchuria, China, SE Asia, Malaya, Burma, India. Am thinking of extending it a bit to include Java and Sumatra: easy to do, now I got the program down righty-tight.

As if that wasn't enough, Mr Skinner pops back in with his paradigm on Chinese (Asian, in general) AF and AFBuilds. Gotta say I'm impressed. Makes complete sense and sparked an epiphany about how to limit the 4E air armies. But that's another subject; roads first [8D]

Ciao. JWE
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RE: Gnarly Asian Roads

Post by fodder »

ORIGINAL: Symon
Burma proper no longer acts like the LA freeway complex. Long and nasty slogs in both directions with darn few river crossings
Ciao. JWE

Thank-you so much!
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ny59giants
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RE: Gnarly Asian Roads

Post by ny59giants »

Just downloaded the files for this in preparation of starting RA 6.0 soon. Noticed the old road network in greater Hong Kong area. Has this been fixed in a newer version??

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RE: Gnarly Asian Roads

Post by Cpt Sherwood »

All of those pink lines are trails, they used to be secondary roads.
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RE: Gnarly Asian Roads

Post by 1EyedJacks »

ORIGINAL: Symon

Ok, so here's part of the movement matrix for the new road system.
Image
Lots of new things. Should slow operations down a whole lot. Two Babes groups are using it and love it. I haven't used it much so don't know how it will play in a normal GC game environment; probably not very well. But it is an interesting alternative. Am porting it to the normal game standards. Will continue to show-and-tell and discuss.

ps, oh, yeah: the different RRs only get a right-of-way road in specific terrain. The bonus columns say what and when.

pps, keep forgetting to mention the details; two new road types, main 2 and secondary 2. This allows for interesting movement rates in mountains and jungles and bears! oh my!

Ciao. JWE

Hi John,

Can I ask what the difference is between road types? Back in my foot-slogging days a road was a road was a road so I'm curious about the upper movement rates for infantry - 30 miles a day with packs, rifles, and ammo is humping it...

Also - I'm not sure armor will be much effected in mileage by dry main roads VS secondary roads. Now add rain and you've another story there... <grin>

I was also looking @ the 60 miles of movement for armor in the chart. A movement phase is 8 hours in the game? So if armor is moving 10mph on top-notch roads you'd be looking @ about 80 miles per day. Armor movement was never about top speed over a long haul; military equipment isn't built for it. [8|]





TTFN,

Mike
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Symon
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RE: Gnarly Asian Roads

Post by Symon »

Whoops.
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Symon
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RE: Gnarly Asian Roads

Post by Symon »

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks
Hi John,

Can I ask what the difference is between road types? Back in my foot-slogging days a road was a road was a road so I'm curious about the upper movement rates for infantry - 30 miles a day with packs, rifles, and ammo is humping it...

Also - I'm not sure armor will be much effected in mileage by dry main roads VS secondary roads. Now add rain and you've another story there... <grin>

I was also looking @ the 60 miles of movement for armor in the chart. A movement phase is 8 hours in the game? So if armor is moving 10mph on top-notch roads you'd be looking @ about 80 miles per day. Armor movement was never about top speed over a long haul; military equipment isn't built for it. [8|]
This is a game.. This is not IRL. Movement rates are abstracted.

[ed] personally I would cut everybody back to nothing and then rape them from there. But can't do that either. Abstractions are such a bother at times.
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ny59giants
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RE: Gnarly Asian Roads

Post by ny59giants »

BUMP...so those now reading mine and the other two new RA AARs can find info on this.
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John 3rd
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RE: Gnarly Asian Roads

Post by John 3rd »

We are underway with Pacific War Diary...we'll see what John's work accomplishes!
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