Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update

Germany At War: Operation Barbarossa 1941 is an elegant turn-based design, inspired by classics such as Panzer General, but with more of a historical focus. You command the German forces through a branching historical campaign covering the entire 1941 campaign as well as part of the 1942 campaign. Dozens of scenarios stretch from the Soviet border all the way to Archangel and towards Astrakhan, the original military goals of Operation Barbarossa. Step into a wargame where your performance will rewrite history, through an addictive combination of compelling gameplay, realistic events and challenging battles.

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jzz001
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Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update

Post by jzz001 »

For multiplayer game, I still prefer the traditional PEBM instead of server based only. At least a additional PEBM option is a must.

Tks
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IainMcNeil
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RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update

Post by IainMcNeil »

Any particular reason why? :)
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Blond_Knight
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RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update

Post by Blond_Knight »

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Any particular reason why? :)


Well because if Slitherine/Matrixgames ceases to exist or falls on hard times and decides to discontinue the server-based PBEM then we could continue to play with friends.
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RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update

Post by IainMcNeil »

I have heard this before and can understand the argument while I strongly disagree with it. It tends to come from people new to the system but once people have been using it for a while this goes away as its just so good. The PBEM server has been going for 4 years already and is a key part of our future plans.

Is there any reason why you feel it would actually be better? I can see no advantages to old style PBEM and it creates a lot of additional work for the developer to support for no gain so I just cant see why we would want to focus resources on that instead of other features.
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RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update

Post by jzz001 »

Shall I ask why this normal wargame function be cancelled? :)
I just thought should have an alternative option for people choice. For me, since I can not connect to your server at the office, because of the company rule, so I can only play multiplayer game at home. But if it has the normal PBEM function, I can easily play them whenever I want at anywhere. if you think this is a particular reason? :)
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Blond_Knight
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RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update

Post by Blond_Knight »

I can see your point Iain, but then why was that functionality included in WITE? I always suspected it had something to do with WITE's price, and as a flagship product traditional PBEM was demanded by the customer base.
Im skeptical that it creates a lot of extra work for the developer. I think Slith/Matrix uses the server-based PBEM more as a form of DRM to prevent copies being shared by friends.
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Erik Rutins
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RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update

Post by Erik Rutins »

Hi guys,

It's not intended as DRM, though I can understand why some might see it that way since it relies on a server. The truth is that it does require additional development time to implement non-server PBEM. For War in the East, we already had non-server PBEM in there when PBEM++ became available. PBEM++ has proven so popular and so much easier than normal PBEM that we wanted to get that in there too, but there was no reason to remove the old PBEM as it was already implemented. For Germany at War, we had a choice to either implement PBEM++ or an improved traditional PBEM system. Between those two, PBEM++ always makes the most sense. I agree that in an ideal world we would be able to do both, but that's not always possible. We have many other games with just PBEM++ and the community has been very happy with them.

If there is enough demand for traditional PBEM, we'll see if it's feasible to add it in. We're not opposed to the idea, it's just additional development time.

Regards,

- Erik
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RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update

Post by jzz001 »

+1
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RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update

Post by tide1530 »

I played a scenario against Ronald using the server...my first time as a matter of fact and found it easy to use with no problems. I have no philosophical questions about it being better or worse then traditional PBEM. If the server goes away some day it's all part of the rich fabric of life. [;)]
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RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update

Post by PipFromSlitherine »

ORIGINAL: jiangzhouzi

Shall I ask why this normal wargame function be cancelled? :)
I just thought should have an alternative option for people choice. For me, since I can not connect to your server at the office, because of the company rule, so I can only play multiplayer game at home. But if it has the normal PBEM function, I can easily play them whenever I want at anywhere. if you think this is a particular reason? :)
I'm intrigued by a company so security conscious that it blocks (normal HTTP) access to the PBEM server, yet allows you to install a 3rd-party game on your computer [:)].

I'd add to the other responses that the PBEM++ server also make it far easier to spot cheating and turn replays. So that's another bonus.

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Pip

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RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update

Post by jzz001 »

I paid $ 35 to buy this game and I do not just play with AI. I only want to ensure that if one day your server no longer providing services, I can still play multiplayer games. Do not tell me that you will never stop the service, even major companies like Microsoft, it's MSN service can say "stop". How do you make me believe that even in case of a loss you will also continue? Here I just want you to give the players more choice, and give us the protection that will not be enslaved to uncertain factors. I do believed that it is a reasonable request.
This game should have the PBEM, according to your webpage Product Specs but it looks like a cheating that make me difficult to understand.
See the picture below.


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wodin
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RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update

Post by wodin »

I asked about this on my FB page. Seems everyone really likes the PBEM++ system, but would like the old method aswell...just in case.
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RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update

Post by Tejszd »

My preference is not to be forced to use a central server for PBEM or real time play because of the dependency to the central server and company. I still play my older games that would almost certainly would not be possible as a number of the companies have gone out of business and even if they were still around would they be willing to pay for the central servers 5-10+ years....
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RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update

Post by jzz001 »

Hi Eric,
Could you please explain to me what is meant "PBEM:Yes" which is stated on your product spec page?
Thus I can only think of a traditional PBEM feature is included in the default. If I had known only server based features, then I probably would not consider buying. This really misled me.
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RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update

Post by Charly G »

My first game with PBEM server was BA. I like very much this system : easy to find an opponent or create a game, cheating is obsolete and player with a pirate copy can't play PBEM. I've bought many games with this PBEM server system and I would like this one in the older games.

I don't understand why it's a problem now after some years where many games use this one.

I hope if you create a traditional PBEM, price of the games don't change.

If Slitherine/Matrix games ceases to exist, it will be a very sad news. For me, this will be the end of PC wargame.
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RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update

Post by jzz001 »

Firstly, I never wanted to compare PBEM and server based which good or bad, here I just want to and in accordance with their products spec, that I should get what I wanted basic PBEM feature.
Secondly, If you so concerned about the problem of cheating, I have to say that wargame maybe are not for you. I think that people who love and play wargames is enjoying its rigorous deduction process are reasonable. thus I can tell you, real wargamer are never cheating and do not really care about that. If you care so much about this, then I think maybe MMORPG online game is just for you. You can never cheat at the game WOW, right? :)
BTW, do not talk about the pirate copy issue, which would allow I think you are one of Slith/Matrix water army. :) Cheers
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Blond_Knight
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RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update

Post by Blond_Knight »

If we say that PBEM++ side effect is its use as a form of DRM that's fine. We're not trying to deprive Slith/Matrix of sales. Include traditional PBEM as an option but require players in a PBEM game to have different serial keys.
As far as cheating is concerned, if that's really a problem you need to find better friends.
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Erik Rutins
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RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update

Post by Erik Rutins »

Hello everyone, PBEM simply means that there is PBEM support. PBEM++ is a form of that. This is not the first game that we've released where PBEM support only goes through the PBEM++ server. This just happens to be the first game where that has been in any way controversial. If you use the PBEM++ system, you'll find that it is a much better and easier way to play PBEM and I also played many PBEM games through the older style of manual PBEM.

The only reason we've gone to PBEM++ is that we've found that it is much easier for players to use and increases PBEM/multiplayer activity, which is a good thing for our community. It's not intended as a form of DRM though I understand that it can be seen that way for those who aim to primarily play multiplayer. We had requests for years to find a way to make PBEM easier and more automated. PBEM++ does that.

With that said, I respect that there are those who want a system that does not require the PBEM++ server, however good it may be. However, adding that support is not without cost. We'll take these comments to heart for future planning, but I can't commit Ronald to any changes to PBEM for this release as he and his team already spent a lot of time getting PBEM++ fully implemented and working.

Regards,

- Erik
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RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update

Post by scout1 »

Not the first game you've released this way and not the last ....

However, do NOT like being forced into your server based version (or anyone else's) for PBEM ..... What's the issue with emailing turns ?
jzz001
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RE: Pls add traditional PEBM function for the next update

Post by jzz001 »

So I am now just considering whether to buy one more copy for my son, then I can teach him what is real PBEM(Play By E-Mail) wargames at matrixgame?. Its called PBEM++ server based only. [:D]
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