Exit Issues and Bad Battle Plans, v4.4.263

[davidx]

I have played command ops, and have the full game, for a while and really like the dynamic AI. While it is not the smartest, the dynamic ability makes replay interesting.

In playing Race for Muse as the axis, I too have observed,

1. The leading of assaults with support weapons, such as mortars and non-armored infantry support guns. While i can always micro managed the issue, it increased the command load on the division HQ and in this scenario, you really need to screen from enemy infiltration by detaching individual units requiring sensible use of the HQ command load, at least i do. In prior versions i have not really observed this issue. I could expect a reasonable battle plan.

2. In the same scenario, exiting takes forever, with no real clue what is causing it. By fiddling, and messing around you can get them to exit but it is frustrating, both in gameplay and game results. Under relentless allied bombardment, half my casualties occur during the delayed exit. This causes a marginal victory from a decisive one with VP typically being around 88 axis 44 allied, which is almost 50 vp diff. I have not played as allies, so i do not know the exact objectives and points, but I must guess, that in this scenario for the allies killing axis is scored heavily.

[Brindlebane]

Quick question.Isn't the latest version 4.4.263 and you're playing 262.Haven't got around to any of the exit scenarios yet so just wondering.Only really got into the game the last couple of weeks once i bought HttR.

[davidx]

O(Ops), it is the latest, v4.4.263, not v4.4.262. I just took the number from the forum topics.

[Arjuna]

I need a save where the support units are leading an assault.

[davidx]

Is that a game save where it has happened? where it is about to happen? where it is happening? etc. I typically only save in 1 day or longer periods, game time.

It does not happen all the time, and now as I am "losing faith in commanders ability", I micro-manage support for important assaults, and non critical assaults I do not pay that much attention.
In earlier versions, at least qualitatively, that never seemed to be a problem.

HQs will let you now if there are no line units in an assault and abandon the task, and others relatives messages.

I like the game, but have noticed other people mention the issue in the forum, which I have also observed.

[Phoenix100]

He needs a save of your order just before it's executed and leads to support units leading, Davidx. I'd appreciate you sending one, for sure, as this problem has been around a long time (though not to a huge extent - it doesn't always happen, but it does still happen sometimes).

As for exiting, there's another thread about it of recent origin (if you search) and Dave has located and fixed a bug that was buggering exiting, he says - for the next patch (ETA not known, I believe).

[davidx]

Thanks for the exit info. Thats an issue that can be worked around, until the patch comes out.

As for the questionable AI battle plans, save, if by some chance, I catch it on a save I will be happy to send it but I only typically save once per game day for fun gaming reasons. I first noticed it in "Pieper Race for the Muese" during the initial assault on Stavelot. It noticed it enough though that, I eventually took micro control, got my results and moved on. Later, after the game save suggestion in this thread, i tried a few times to reproduce, but it never did.

My curiosity, I believe in essence there is some random chance in the game results, evaluating the various criteria in the game engine. Most random number generators require some initial seed and given the same seed, the same sequence results. How does Command Ops operate, is the seed encoded in the games save, resulting in the exact same sequence for all game play based on the save or is it for example I save a game, restart the computer, load the old game, and a new random sequence starts. My observations suggest a new sequence resulting in a possibly totally different result. I am curious from a game play, this particualr weird observation and other wierd observations perspective? If it a random issue versus algorithmic, I can always consider it a fog of war thing and move on. If not, because I do not like to save often, its not fun. Thanks.

[Phoenix100]

Well - as has been mentioned before, Davidx - what I do, and many others (and really started doing because of the support units leading business, though that's not the only reason to do it) is always detach the Bn support assets and give any kind of order that may lead to contact to only line units and HQ. Take off the Bn mortar and give it separate orders, ditto the AT unit, if there is one. I haven't myself seen an HQ lead an assault or advance for a very long time, but I do regularly see the wheeled support units up front (because they've got wheels, I guess is the prob). As far as the mortars go, you're best, imho, giving them separate orders anyway, otherwise, for example, they won't put in prelim bombards (if you want that, as I nearly always do, then you have to put it in manually at the moment). I've found that it all works best for me if I give orders at BN level and detach all support to give separate orders to them. Rarely get glitches then. That said, I've not tried giving huge orders (Regiment level and above) for a very long time (like years). I do give orders to groups bigger than Bn, but they're battlegroups I've created. I've really no idea how well a regimental order works in the game these days. I think maybe Daz has tried that a lot, but can't recall the results.

[dazkaz15]

I use regimental level orders at times yes, but I always detach the support assets before giving an attack order.

I don't know why the support units, anti tank, anti air, are included in the assault anyway?
They should be in the reserve location, to be called up very carefully if required, and moved via a covered route into a covered position where they can engage the enemy from range during an assault.
There not really meant to be used in assaulting, there more for defensive use where they can be deployed, and camouflaged to cover likely approaches to your position by enemy armour.

The anti air units aside from their obvious use, are best used in the same way, but to cover likely enemy infantry approaches where they have good fields of fire, and can engage from long range.
During an assault they are best placed in a position that has cover i.e. just inside a forest where they have LOS of the enemy position from a distance inside their effective range, and its a bit unreasonable to expect the AI to be able to do this in different terrain, weather, and time of day.
Your much better off doing it yourself.
If you include them in your attack plans, and leave it to the AI don't be surprised when they get killed.
They are usually small in number, and a lot more visible on the battlefield than infantry, therefore easier to hit, and a very attractive target for a bombardment as well, with no or very little armour to mitigate its effect.
If you want something to follow your infantry in an assault to take out enemy tanks then that's what tanks, and tank destroyers are for.

Don't waste your valuable support units in a role that there not designed for.

Save them for the defence of your newly acquired objective [;)]

[dazkaz15]

As for increasing command load; the on map boss being overloaded does not seam to effect the order times very much, but if you are still concerned about it you can group the support units with one of your units in reserve with a defend in situ order.
Just control click on your support units, and any other units you want to defend in situ, and re-order the defend in situ order.

[dazkaz15]

Dave I have been thinking a bit about this.

I don't think the player should be penalized with a re-plan, or as usually happens a complete abandonment of an assault if you use, or move your attached support units during an assault.

I think the player should be able to call for bombardments from artillery, and mortars attached to the assaulting HQ, and also move independently the support units (anti-tank, anti-air) without it having any effect at all on the infantry/line units assaulting the objective.

I know it will require quite a bit of re-work to the game engine.

I'm very interested to know how others feel about this?

[dazkaz15]

I'm not ready for this in my AAR thread yet so I thought I would post it here for now as its on topic.