Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted

[governato]

If reinforcements arrive as large, static units with low proficiency, to be disbanded shortly on arrival, then the players would focus a lot more on holding cities. German players able to hold on to large manpower sources longer than historical would cripple the Soviet Union, by starving it of rifle squads. About 1 million soldiers were drafted into the Red Army from Ukraine when it was retaken in 1944. This has been used in 'Soviet Union' and 'Eastern Front 41-45' to good effect.

[Panama]

Just curious, will the map cover the same area as the first FiTE?

[Telumar]

ORIGINAL: docgaun

Hello everybody.

Thanks for all the tips. The Soviet oob is at 7000 units atm. The structual limitations are still quite a bitch in Toaw, but still this will be the most massive senario ever.
Scale is 6km hex, regimental size.

You're insane.. Who shall play this?

Seriously. I was hoping you would go again with the 10km scale and divisions with the Soviets. With the increased unit limit in 3.5 these still could subdivide into regiments.

[Panama]

ORIGINAL: Telumar

ORIGINAL: docgaun

Hello everybody.

Thanks for all the tips. The Soviet oob is at 7000 units atm. The structual limitations are still quite a bitch in Toaw, but still this will be the most massive senario ever.
Scale is 6km hex, regimental size.

You're insane.. Who shall play this?

Seriously. I was hoping you would go again with the 10km scale and divisions with the Soviets. With the increased unit limit in 3.5 these still could subdivide into regiments.

Most wargamers are certifiably insane. [:D]

[fogger]

very true [X(]

[secadegas]

In sake of good order (and future of TOAW) this Design sub-forum should be reserved for experienced designers and credible projects and let all other "things" directed to War Room sub-forum where people can present... all kind of "free ideas"...

[Panama]

Scenario Design
Post discussions and advice on TOAW scenario design here.

The War Room
Post advice on tactics and strategies here; share your experience on how to become a better wargamer.

The Scenario Design sub forum is home to the Comprehensive Wishlist, a veritable hotbed of free ideas. [;)]

But serisoulsy, I understand what you are saying. Perhaps you could suggest to the powers that a sub sub forum be introduced. Perhaps call it Work in Progress or something like that. Only serious business allowed.

[Panama]

ORIGINAL: docgaun

Here is the oob for soviet airformations, just for the fun of it, its not done yet.
I have cut out the game notes and historical data

The starting Soviet air forces are a mess. For instance, in the Leningrad MD you have 314 operational SB type aircraft. But you have 560 crews for them. 163 operational Mig-3 but only 15 crew. It seems the older aircraft have plenty of crew but the newer aircraft have a severe shortage of trained pilots. Send a Mig-3 up with an SB pilot = a short lived pilot. [:D]

[docgaun]

Thanks for all the input, guys appreciate it. I hope you will continue as it will make the scenario much better. I simply can’t thank you enough.

I’ll try to answer as much as I can.
sPzAbt653 What took up all the units:
The soviet air force is around 1000 units, regiments takes pretty much the rest. We have most battalions removed, and put Artillery under the HQ for each Division/Corps. This is done with a Sapper Battalion, Guards Mortar, and Mortar battalions as well, to save units, and to make the game playable ( I hope)
Bibbo
A lot of factories;) it will keep the Soviet player forward, or he will loose production. Allso, we will calculate a German bonus production into the game. So if the Germans go faster, deeper and hold ground longer, than historical he will get more production than historically.

Also a few reform events will keep the soviet number of units low. Eg. The Militia that formed the corresponding Rifle Division has to be removed to get the Rifle Division, with a delay. Same for Cavalry units.
Panama
I agree that there is a problem with the number of HQ, and supply. However there will be few trucks, and a low supply. If you want to have supplies to fight, you will need to think carefully about where to place your HQ
It’s all on internal support, so the units will benefit from being in the same formation. Not having them together will limit support, supply, and take all your time attacking. So if you want to win, you will have to keep formations together (Guards are still free support so they can move freely, and support freely, as historically )
The Soviets where a master of improvisation, but TOAW is not and we have to adopt history to the limitations of a game. Soviet used goal oriented planning, and assigned the units needed for a specific operation. You will have the same flexibility with Guards, and Stavka reserves ( RVGK ect) These are free support. The internal support is also to prevent your point of supplies and coordination for HQ.
The map will be a bit larger, and in 6km hexes
Its correct that the Air force was a mess, however after the first few days it was not pilots that were missing as reservist where drafted ( It was again later in the war). Its was Aircraft. Giving the low proficiency of the starting Soviet Air force, they will get killed and fast, and should if the Germans pay attention in the first 2 turns be nearly absent the first months.
polarenper
Minsk will fall around turn 4-6, unless the German player is performing poorly, or the Soviet player moves everything to defend it. If so he will pay for it. The mobility of the Germans, and the immobility of the starting soviet forces, are a setup for disaster. As per history, we hope.

ogar
You are guessing right. Sneffens Neva experience will be used of cause I am not sure I understand your questions correctly, could you reface it?

Telumar
We are insane, by adding the 6km scale we hope to bring back the element of maneuverability. Being motorized will really be vital, and this should reflect the historical outcome and operations better, than the “WW1” conditions showed in Fite 1. Foot move will be around 12, while fast recon units will have around 38

[fogger]

Couple of suggestions from my current game. (Buzz's Mod)
1. Do away with the withdraw of the German 41 tank units. Instead have a unit with the replacement tanks that is to be disbanded.
2. From my readings, Russian tank units had only 1 radio per company. Thus they should be more prone to going into reorg.
3. Russian tank units and infantry units have no trouble crossing super rivers without engineer support. Whereas more than 1/2 of the German engineer unit can not cross a super river and No German or infantry can cross a super river.
4. If working off this Mod review the German Order of battle. I am still getting Fin HQ's even though Finland surrendered 100 turn ago.
5. Around turn 130 the game counter lost 2 turns. What I mean is the game the turn comes back from the Russian player as turn 306 but opens as turn 305 whereas the German should be 307 being the start of the new turn.

Just my 2 cents worth

[docgaun]

thanks for the input fogger

[loveman2]

Any news on the progress of FITE2[8|]

[Panama]

Probably waiting for 3.5 in order to make it properly.

[fogger]

Talking of 3.5, does anybody have an update of which Christmas we can expect the update to be released. [:D]

[TPOO]

FITE2 Update.

Just to let everyone know that progress is continuing on FITE2. The framework for the Soviet OOB is nearing completion, many thousands of units in regiment size. The framework for the German OOB is also progressing and both should be finished by June. Work on the equipment phase will probable be done in July and stating on the event list after that. There will be a map of 6K per hex that will stretch from Hamburg in the west to Molotov and Ufa in the east. This is a huge undertaking and the input and ideas from all of many friends of FITE are welcome at this time. Please share them here in this thread.

Docgaun is finishing up a scenario briefing and may be able to provide some tidbits from that to get a feel for the scope of this scenario.

Of course all of this is contingent on the next patch being completed.

[docgaun]

Hello.
As we are moving closer to inserting the units, i was hoping for some input regarding the OOB, and events ect. Eventually a few game testers. To sum it up, i need someone to criticize the work and have the fun, while we do all the hard work.
To be precise we will need people that would look trough the following:
- Soviet OOB: Systematic walkthrough
- German OOB: Systematic walkthrough
- Map, Systematic review of map, looking for errors ideas ect
- Ideas for events/ and programming of those
- To&E of units, evaluate To&e
- Briefing ( I am Danish so my English needs to be corrected)
- Comments on the compromises we have made to fit history into a game
- Production number of artillery/tanks aircraft walkthrough, and comments
So if someone out there wants to be an external consultant on Fite2, please write me.
Direct help:
We do need some help finding sources on Soviet ( and other) Partisan activity. Strength unit names active periods ect. So if you know of a book, a web site something that might be of help Please write us
Sg@medflex.dk
In advance
Søren Gaun

[fogger]

Hi docgaum,
Is there an update on FITE2?

[larryfulkerson]

I'd like to know the answer to that myself.

[docgaun]

Hello.
Well Rick has fnished the map, 6km/hex. The soviet OOB only needs a few partisans ( Have to read another book on Soviet partisans behind AGN), and some navalfine tuning. I have allso started on the equipment and squad calculation. So actually we are on schedule. The German OOB is a tad behind schedule, but the German allies are allmost finished.
We are trying to bring Steve in to help with the events, as i am a bit rusty on that part.
However, the senario is designed for TOAW 3,5, so we need that released first;)

If all goes after the plan, units will go in to the game starting august/september, and it should be playable around Christmas.

Just to give you a few ideas about it. the Soviet OOB is allmost 8.000 units including 800 air regiments. Of cause not all units would be on map at any giving time, but it is a monster. The Changes to the German units comparet to Fite 1 is mostly on tecnical ( MG-42, Sturmgever 44 ect) however the Artillery will be in battalions ( Independent) to provide better stratigic and tactical planning. The basic infantry division will be structured with a HQ and 3 rifle regiments, with divisional ( AA, AT Engineer Battalions) assets divided among these 4 units.
Below i have cut in an example of the 7th Guards Cavalry Corps with its To&E ( execpt the Regiment)

For every single equipment there is a calculated TOAW value based on its unique specifications, this is then programed into the scenario, and its unit. So its everything thats re-created. A good example is the 203mm Howitzer thats realy poor in the original TOAW because it uses rate of fire as a potent variable. However being an artillery man myself before i became a doctor, i know that the first salvo is the one that does the dammage, the rest have mostly an supressing effect. (The infantry hit the ground). All this data is verified with historically repports.

Another funny example is that we use the historicalt weather to try to simulate the historically weather;) Its neerdy i know;)

If you have specific questions ill be happy to try to answer them. Allso any comments ideas are very welcome

A oob Exampel :
7th Guards Cavalry Corps HQ Event Stalingrad Yes Formed 14 feb 1943, 1733rd AA regiment, 57th Mortar Bn. 7th GD Mortar Bn, Type 43 HQ
145th Guards Antitank Regiment Event Yes 1816th SU Reg, 7th GD AT Bn

14th Guards Cavalry Division HQ Event Stalingrad Yes Type 43
52nd Guards Cavalry Regiment Event Yes Type 43
54th Guards Cavalry Regiment Event Yes Type 43
56th Guards Cavalry Regiment Event Yes Type 43
114th Tank Regiment Event Yes Type 43, with 1899th Su regiment 21x Su-76 historically at Various armies and STAVKA Reserve

15th Guards Cavalry Division HQ Event Stalingrad Yes 147th GD Art-Mortar Regiment, Type 43
53rd Guards Cavalry Regiment Event Yes Type 43
55th Guards Cavalry Regiment Event Yes Type 43
57th Guards Cavalry Regiment Event Yes Type 43
57th Tank Regiment Event Yes Type 43, With 1898th Su Regiment 21x Su 76, Historically at1st Belorussian Front

16th Guards Cavalry Division HQ Event Saratov Yes 148th GD Art-Motor Regiment, Type 43
58th Guards Cavalry Regiment Event Yes Type 43
60th Guards Cavalry Regiment Event Yes Type 43
62nd Guards Cavalry Regiment Event Yes Type 43
32nd Tank Regiment Event Yes Type 43, with 1897th Su Regiment 21x Su 76

To&E
Cavalry Corps HQ 43 1 Mortar Regiment 36x 120mm Mortars
1 AA Regiment 24x 37mm AA 61K (3rd Section from april 44)
12x HMG DshK
1 GD Mortar Bn/Regiment 8/24 x BM-13 132mm MRLS ( Battalion at first but later enlarget to a Regiment, from independent Battalions)
9x HMG DshK
1 Sapper Bn 27x Engineer squads
2x N2P Pontoons

Cav Corps Antitank Regiment 43 1 Antitank Regiment 24x 76,2mm Zis-3 Cannon ( 6th Battery from 44)
12x Light MG-Squads
1 SU Regiment 16/21x SU-85/100/122, (From Feb44 21x)
9x SMG Squads
3x Pioneer Squads
1 Antitank Bn 12x 85mm L/55 52-K AA Gun OR 45/57mm Guns
1 Recon Bn 10x T-34/76
(10x) M3A1 Scout car
18x Rifle Squads w/LMG
6x MG-Squads (MMG, 4 crews)

[Ruppich]

ORIGINAL: docgaun
We are trying to bring Steve in to help with the events, as i am a bit rusty on that part.
However, the senario is designed for TOAW 3,5, so we need that released first;)

This means we wil never see fite 2.0 because toaw3.5 will never come out.[:-]