Has Shadows fixed the "too much money" issue?

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Antiscamp
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RE: Has Shadows fixed the "too much money" issue?

Post by Antiscamp »

I find the economy a lot more challenging now. I'm in the red most of the time. [:D]
bvoid
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RE: Has Shadows fixed the "too much money" issue?

Post by bvoid »

As a pirate you can easily get piles of cash by capturing the starport above empire homeworlds. See pirate feedback thread :)
Zangi
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RE: Has Shadows fixed the "too much money" issue?

Post by Zangi »

Throw in a Wonder with its +50% development... and your income goes up by double or some such.

Also, playing on Excellent homeworld really helps with income...
Securan/Excellent Homeworld/Any Gov't/Normal = Scrooge McDuck's money bin
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Kruos
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RE: Has Shadows fixed the "too much money" issue?

Post by Kruos »

Yeah, from my experiences, wonders can really make you swim in money. The development bonuses they give are really powerful. Maybe too much?
Bingeling
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RE: Has Shadows fixed the "too much money" issue?

Post by Bingeling »

Wonders have always been a bad idea the way they were implemented. I never liked neither them nor characters adding massive bonuses with little balance around them.
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Plant
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RE: Has Shadows fixed the "too much money" issue?

Post by Plant »

How has economy been made tighter? Other than needing more colonies needing more resources, which might actually end up being more beneficial for trade, I can only see the only economy difference is that you start of with a smaller population, and so less tax revenue. That is it.

The again, there is no way i can compare Legends level with Shadow levels of revenue without uninstalling Shadows and reinstalling Legends.

Other than mysterious money losses in a game I had, which I am thinking is a bug there doesn't seem to be a difference once you get the same population.

I guess there are more powerful pirates and lower starting tech level compared with pirates, but that isn't an economic effect.
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scotten_usa
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RE: Has Shadows fixed the "too much money" issue?

Post by scotten_usa »

For me, I've almost never rush techs. I don't think it's fair since I'm way smarter than the AI.
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adecoy95
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RE: Has Shadows fixed the "too much money" issue?

Post by adecoy95 »

ORIGINAL: Zangi

Throw in a Wonder with its +50% development... and your income goes up by double or some such.

Also, playing on Excellent homeworld really helps with income...
Securan/Excellent Homeworld/Any Gov't/Normal = Scrooge McDuck's money bin

yep, you can manually raise their tax rate to 100% and still have a happy population, just keep an eye on the civilian sector
invaderzim
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RE: Has Shadows fixed the "too much money" issue?

Post by invaderzim »

ORIGINAL: ScottenChi

For me, I've almost never rush techs. I don't think it's fair since I'm way smarter than the AI.


Yeah, I'd agree. I turtled on my homeworld and rushed the Open Trade Network tech for the first 10 years (built about 10-12 high-tech labs to research it faster). Once you have the Trader's Bazaar (+30 development and +50% income), you have all the money you'll need for a while. You then get the option of dropping your taxes to increase growth (at one point I had 5-10% taxes on my homeworld while still making 50-100k a year) or saving the money and using it to fund crash research. It's then easy to rush Enhanced Research which doubles your High-Tech research.

At this point you can also get the rest of the research wonders as well as the Trade Guild which gives you another 30% bonus. Stacking this bonus with a governor that provided a 30% income bonus and Trade Guild or Democracy government lead to a huge economic bonus that carried my empire for the rest of the game.

I like how wonders allow you to focus on a smaller more vertical empire instead trying to sprawl everywhere, but they might be too powerful in Shadows. At least the way the High-Tech tree is right now, it seems like it's too easy to snowball. I had weird map settings though: 250 stars, 6x6, varied clusters on Normal with 8 empires. It might be harder to turtle on a denser map with more stars and more enemies nearby.
Numdydar
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RE: Has Shadows fixed the "too much money" issue?

Post by Numdydar »

Yes the game settings have a HUGE impact on the game. So you can set things up at the beginning and you can still end up with a ton of money or change the settings and have income struggles the entire game. So to the OP, the answer to your question is not a simple Yes or No as you can set the game parameters up to play pretty much however you want [:)]
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DeadlyShoe
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RE: Has Shadows fixed the "too much money" issue?

Post by DeadlyShoe »

Wonders really are still too powerful. Especially Trader's Bazaar. My arch rival in a current game has a much smaller empire but nearly equal income just because of Trader's Bazaar. If the player gets it it's basically an auto-win.

And unfortunately because of how they're unlocked Wonders are a bit of a slippery slope mechanic. The best get better and the worst get further behind.

Shakturi kinda screw with it too if you are on anything slower than default tech rate. because they arrive then build every high end wonder. So they have infinite money on top of everything else.

The wonder upkeep costs don't really do anything.

One thing Civ 5 had was per-civilization wonders. I think a lot of the wonders could stand to be per-civ rather than per-galaxy. After some toning down.


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Kruos
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RE: Has Shadows fixed the "too much money" issue?

Post by Kruos »

ORIGINAL: DeadlyShoe

Wonders really are still too powerful. Especially Trader's Bazaar. My arch rival in a current game has a much smaller empire but nearly equal income just because of Trader's Bazaar. If the player gets it it's basically an auto-win.

And unfortunately because of how they're unlocked Wonders are a bit of a slippery slope mechanic. The best get better and the worst get further behind.

Shakturi kinda screw with it too if you are on anything slower than default tech rate. because they arrive then build every high end wonder. So they have infinite money on top of everything else.

The wonder upkeep costs don't really do anything.

One thing Civ 5 had was per-civilization wonders. I think a lot of the wonders could stand to be per-civ rather than per-galaxy. After some toning down.



I tend to agree.

I am finishing a big game with the Zenox (1400-10x10-hard-defaultcorruption) and I am litteraly swimming in money. I have to say that the early-mid game eco was very well balanced and pleasant, until I built a wonder on my home world which gave me a +30% dev bonus. Then money began to flow widely, with something like +100k cashflow, whereas I had only 3-4 colonies with lot of defensives bases and a small fleet...

I will start another big game with heavy corruption to see if the eco is better balanced with that setting. But I have the feeling that even with that, wonder will still be a 'I win button' for the economy balance. TBC.
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Kruos
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RE: Has Shadows fixed the "too much money" issue?

Post by Kruos »

I like how wonders allow you to focus on a smaller more vertical empire instead trying to sprawl everywhere, but they might be too powerful in Shadows. At least the way the High-Tech tree is right now, it seems like it's too easy to snowball. I had weird map settings though: 250 stars, 6x6, varied clusters on Normal with 8 empires. It might be harder to turtle on a denser map with more stars and more enemies nearby.

Same feeling here.

The development bonuses they give is perhaps a little bit too much. Moreover, I think that some constraint could be added to unlock them. I think they are maybe too easy to build. Why not include something like "have [facilityX] in every colonies" to allow the build? Or another mechanism wich could reinforce the 'vertical empire' concept?.
t1it
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RE: Has Shadows fixed the "too much money" issue?

Post by t1it »

I agree fully to the 'wonders OP' sentiment. I've just build all of them now in my Quameno game and I think I'm quitting that game now...too much money X:
These wonders obviously needs a huge nerf.
TrooperCooper
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RE: Has Shadows fixed the "too much money" issue?

Post by TrooperCooper »


Yes, I agree on a needed wonders nerf.

I had a game just now without pirates. I wanted the good old empire wars. And I actually got into that pretty soon at the beginning. It was a fierce conflict with ongoing battles in numerous systems, invasions on both sides of the fence. Slowly but steadily I gained the upper hand. I felt like making real progress. Then I finnished a wonder on my homeworld, which (aside from +100% HT research) gave me another 300k income... which basically allowed me to double my standing forces right away. Now I am pretty much untouchable and begin to snowball. [8|]

Thing with wonders is that they make you to powerfull... but you are shooting yourself if you intentionally dont go for them...
Buio
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RE: Has Shadows fixed the "too much money" issue?

Post by Buio »

Hope we get a wonders fix in a patch soon. Otherwise I'm pretty happy with the new economy. I'm not a min/max player though.
Bloodly
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RE: Has Shadows fixed the "too much money" issue?

Post by Bloodly »

Money? Not so much. But then, money is never the restraint(Possibly 'is not meant to be'), resources and resource transport are. And these days, resources are or can be a problem.

Then again, I'm biased. I play with the Securans and with 999k Tech costs, so things can take a very long time, which means build up isn't that much of a problem.
Litcube
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RE: Has Shadows fixed the "too much money" issue?

Post by Litcube »

To answer OPS question: no, the game still costs twice as much as a triple A title.
turtlefang
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RE: Has Shadows fixed the "too much money" issue?

Post by turtlefang »

I haven't had a "runaway" money game yet like I did on a regular basis before the expansion. Typically, money will get a lot looser in the late game than early or middle game but I would expect that in most games as long as you don't overbuild.

The starting conditions make a huge difference - on excellence, money fairly easy; on normal, it is tight; on harsh, your going to be counting pennies for a long time. And part of it also depends on the pirate level. Interesting, normal, so far, ends up with a much more difficult problem than many - the normal Pirates are fewer but much much stronger and harder to deal with - and help put a check on your economy. The many ends up with a lot more but weaker.
DaveDash
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RE: Has Shadows fixed the "too much money" issue?

Post by DaveDash »

I tend to play as Democracy/Republic and I find I'm mostly in the red income wise.

However, yeah, Wonders make a huge difference.
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