HELP: no CAP planes in the air

[obvert]

Just looking for some advice. The more I play the more I realize the numerous things I still have questions about.

Recently over two days sweeps hit one of my bases where I have a good amount of fighters and support. There is no radar so I boosted CAP% on the second day and still no planes were in the air when the attacks arrived, leading to sporadically arriving planes and less numerical advantage. This happened not only in the first sweep but throughout all three, all of which were in the morning phase. Wouldn't those planes have still been in the air?

Here are the details. EDIT: TWO DAYS of reports. The first I understand slightly better than the second, when I changed to 80% CAP.

Sorong. Level 5 airfield. 1 HQa, 1 base force (no radar). no damage. good moral. little fatigue.

4 July: Air groups: 1 x A6M5, 2 x J2M3, 2 x N1K2-J

CAP: 30-40%, 0 hex range. ALT: 3 @ 15k, 2 @ 20k. Moral: 85-94 except one group of Jacks at 74. Fatigue: less than 10 for all groups. Leaders: good HQa leader (air 70+), good group leaders for all groups. Pilots: 60-75 exp, 68-73 skill, 68-71 defense

Results: Allied sweeps cooperate and down the IJN planes at an alarming rate as they climb into battle piecemeal. TOTALS: reports show 3:48
[font="Trebuchet MS"]
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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR July 4, 44
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Morning Air attack on Sorong , at 82,107

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 33 NM, estimated altitude 46,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 9
J2M3 Jack x 47
N1K2-J George x 38

Allied aircraft
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 48
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 47

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 4 destroyed
J2M3 Jack: 7 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 9 destroyed [X(] About 15:1 in actual results

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 2 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
25 x P-47D2 Thunderbolt sweeping at 42000 feet
12 x P-47D25 Thunderbolt sweeping at 42000 feet
14 x P-47D2 Thunderbolt sweeping at 42000 feet
9 x P-47D25 Thunderbolt sweeping at 42000 feet

CAP engaged:
S-302 Kokutai with J2M3 Jack (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 25 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
256 Ku S-1 with A6M5 Zero (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 10 minutes
S-601 Hikotai with J2M3 Jack (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 9 minutes
341 Ku S-1 with N1K2-J George (0 airborne, 11 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
S-407 Hikotai with N1K2-J George (0 airborne, 15 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 12 minutes

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5 July: Air groups: 1 x A6M5, 2 x J2M3, 2 x N1K2-J, 1 x Ki-44 IIc

CAP: 80%, 0 hex range. ALT: 6 @ 15k. Moral: 81-95 except one group of Jacks at 59. Fatigue: less than 18 for all groups. Leaders: good HQa leader (air 70+), good group leaders for all groups. Pilots: 51-81 exp, 65-74 skill, 62-73 defense

Results: Allied sweeps cooperate again and even with the higher CAP settings no planes are in the air, resulting in fragmentation of the CAP numbers and high percentage of Allied kills. Much better ratio, and I'll take this against the P-47 any day. My question is about why there are no planes in the air, as this could have led to much better results. TOTALS: reports show 21:52
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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR July 5, 44
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Morning Air attack on Sorong , at 82,107

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 40 NM, estimated altitude 45,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 12
J2M3 Jack x 47
N1K2-J George x 43
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 38

Allied aircraft
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 3
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed 5 v 140

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed

CAP engaged:
S-302 Kokutai with J2M3 Jack (0 airborne, 14 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
256 Ku S-1 with A6M5 Zero (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes
S-601 Hikotai with J2M3 Jack (0 airborne, 18 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
341 Ku S-1 with N1K2-J George (0 airborne, 16 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
S-407 Hikotai with N1K2-J George (0 airborne, 14 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
77th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (0 airborne, 26 on standby, 0 scrambling)
12 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes

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Morning Air attack on Sorong , at 82,107

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 39 NM, estimated altitude 47,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 12
J2M3 Jack x 47
N1K2-J George x 43
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 36

Allied aircraft
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 22
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 34

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 2 destroyed
J2M3 Jack: 11 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 4 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 2 destroyed 66 v 138 here

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 3 destroyed
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 2 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x P-47D25 Thunderbolt sweeping at 42000 feet
7 x P-47D25 Thunderbolt sweeping at 42000 feet
2 x P-47D2 Thunderbolt sweeping at 42000 feet

CAP engaged:
S-302 Kokutai with J2M3 Jack (0 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
9 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
256 Ku S-1 with A6M5 Zero (0 airborne, 5 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 15 minutes
S-601 Hikotai with J2M3 Jack (0 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
14 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
341 Ku S-1 with N1K2-J George (0 airborne, 16 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 42000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
S-407 Hikotai with N1K2-J George (0 airborne, 11 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
77th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (0 airborne, 15 on standby, 0 scrambling)
21 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes

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Morning Air attack on Sorong , at 82,107

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 48,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 6
J2M3 Jack x 27
N1K2-J George x 35
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 29

Allied aircraft
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 22

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
J2M3 Jack: 2 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 3 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 2 destroyed 22 v 97 and these are the results?

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x P-47D2 Thunderbolt sweeping at 42000 feet

CAP engaged:
S-302 Kokutai with J2M3 Jack (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 42 minutes
S-601 Hikotai with J2M3 Jack (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 0 scrambling)
13 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 14000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
S-407 Hikotai with N1K2-J George (0 airborne, 2 on standby, 0 scrambling)
15 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
77th Sentai with Ki-44-IIc Tojo (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
16 plane(s) not yet engaged, 7 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
256 Ku S-1 with A6M5 Zero (0 airborne, 2 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 13000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 16 minutes
341 Ku S-1 with N1K2-J George (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
11 plane(s) not yet engaged, 6 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 14000 and 45000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 41 minutes

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[Miller]

1) The strato sweep effect used by your opponent.

2) Your CAP % is way too low. I run 90% without any problem as long as there is plenty of AV support and range is restricted to 0.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Miller

1) The strato sweep effect used by your opponent.

2) Your CAP % is way too low. I run 90% without any problem as long as there is plenty of AV support and range is restricted to 0.

Miller is right, a Cap setting of 30 or 40% would invite me to bomb your fighters on the ground. As long as you keep their range at 0 you literally can fly Cap all around the clock

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Miller

1) The strato sweep effect used by your opponent.

2) Your CAP % is way too low. I run 90% without any problem as long as there is plenty of AV support and range is restricted to 0.

I think you missed the second half. On July 5 the CAP was changed to 80% and still there were NO fighters in the air.

I get that the first dives will kill off a lot of planes, but that's exactly why I'd like to have a higher CAP percentage, so that there are more to meet those dives IN THE AIR.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: Miller

1) The strato sweep effect used by your opponent.

2) Your CAP % is way too low. I run 90% without any problem as long as there is plenty of AV support and range is restricted to 0.

Miller is right, a Cap setting of 30 or 40% would invite me to bomb your fighters on the ground. As long as you keep their range at 0 you literally can fly Cap all around the clock

CAP 30-40% is fine with quick climbers when no massive raids are expected. There should still be SOME fighters up, right, not NONE. At times it works better even to have a lower percentage up as more fighters scramble to increase numbers and meet later bombers at full strength, not having been depleted as heavily by sweeps.

There had been no sweeps and no bombing EVER in this location previously. Naturally the next day I changed to 80% CAP and still NO fighters were in the air.

[Miller]

No idea with day two tbh.......I can only guess that a combination of damaged a/c from the previous day combined with bad dice rolls for the checks on how many a/c fly, but even then that would not explain why there is nothing in the air to start with.....

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Miller

No idea with day two tbh.......I can only guess that a combination of damaged a/c from the previous day combined with bad dice rolls for the checks on how many a/c fly, but even then that would not explain why there is nothing in the air to start with.....

Interesting point about damage. Before these attacks these were resting for a good amount of time, so the overall damage shouldn't be to high, but after July 4 it could have gone up of course for some planes. Just from memory it did seem a good amount of planes flew, but it was hard to tell as many of them got smoked just as they arrived.

We've just upgraded to the beta so I'm just trying to see if there is anything new and I noticed this as I tried to look closely at all reports for the first while playing with it.

[GreyJoy]

Happens Erik when the detection level is so low. That's the key. The strato sweep doesn't help either. I have experienced the same in Burma even with 100% CAP... when the TBolts arrive at 42,000, even if you have the Tai-Chi 7 radar, you will never have any airborne fighter. They will all scramble.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Happens Erik when the detection level is so low. That's the key. The strato sweep doesn't help either. I have experienced the same in Burma even with 100% CAP... when the TBolts arrive at 42,000, even if you have the Tai-Chi 7 radar, you will never have any airborne fighter. They will all scramble.

What the hell is that supposed to be modeled on then?

The entire idea and practice of CAP was to have planes in the air at all times, plus others ready to go and scramble. If you're basically doing circles over a base, it would be pretty easy to let 5 at a time go down to fuel up or change pilots.

Seriously though, is there no setting to have planes in the air at all times, guaranteed? Why am I just learning this now after literally years playing this game? [X(]

I have no problem with the Allies having an altitude advantage, as they should, but having planes in the air seems like a simple thing to ask.

[LoBaron]

I think I can help obvert. [:)]

ORIGINAL: obvert
CAP engaged:
S-302 Kokutai with J2M3 Jack (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 25 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes

The crucial lines in this combat report are not the bold ones, but the ones I have marked in red in the above example.

Sadly, IMHO, the line "not yet engaged" is very misleading. Because in truth it means: there are 3 planes already airborne, but engaged otherwise. Means: either already in combat in said hex, or diverted to support CAP in a different hex. Check the combat report again, you got loads of fighters in the "not yet engaged" status.

Those fighters are most probably your complete initial airborne contingent, thats why you only have scrambling fighters left to engage the sweepers.

This, in combination with the low detection range of the sweeps because you lack early warning, leads to your inferior position. Although it might be not deciding, as Tbolts incoming at high alt are extremely difficult to stop.

Small hint: the more you kill the better, try everything in the book. There is half a year production gap between the D25 and the N version which comes online early ´45. If you attrit the Tbolts enough you might buy some breathing space until the N version arrives.

[btd64]

Just my 2 cents, but is the altitude of the p47's a factor. they come in high over the japanese cap and the cap has to climb to meat the allied aircraft.????? Something to think about i guess..
Cheers

[crsutton]

Raid spotted at 39 NM, estimated altitude 47,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes


You spotted the raid 11 minutes out in the second attack and 9 minutes out in the first. Which basically means that you had 11 minutes for your CAP to climb and react. Your CAP was set to patrol at altitudes of 15,000 and 20,000 feet. Basically faster. better armed aircraft came in and hit your blind base and were not spotted in time for a cohesive reaction. If I were the Allied player and did not get these results or better then I would have been crying the blues..[;)] Sometimes the game gets it exactly right. I don't think I would try to defend a base at this stage of the war without radar. You had you CAP up but that does not mean it was in position to do anything. Sometimes this game gets it very right.

An allied base force with good radar would have picked this sort of raid up at about 60-100 miles out and even with 10% CAP would have put up a good defense.

I really think you would have seen a world of difference if you had radar.

In addition there is the issue of the uber high sweep which is bad news for Japan once the Allied get their second generation fighters. It is one area of the game where I believe a house rule in is order. Some disagree though.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

I think I can help obvert. [:)]

ORIGINAL: obvert
CAP engaged:
S-302 Kokutai with J2M3 Jack (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 25 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes

The crucial lines in this combat report are not the bold ones, but the ones I have marked in red in the above example.

Sadly, IMHO, the line "not yet engaged" is very misleading. Because in truth it means: there are 3 planes already airborne, but engaged otherwise. Means: either already in combat in said hex, or diverted to support CAP in a different hex. Check the combat report again, you got loads of fighters in the "not yet engaged" status.

Those fighters are most probably your complete initial airborne contingent, thats why you only have scrambling fighters left to engage the sweepers.

This, in combination with the low detection range of the sweeps because you lack early warning, leads to your inferior position. Although it might be not deciding, as Tbolts incoming at high alt are extremely difficult to stop.

I would agree with you except that these were the only combats in this hex or nearby, and the groups were all set to 0 range. No other sweeps or bombing missions took place even in the extended range of these planes had they been set there.

However you read it they certainly were 'not yet engaged.' If they were out of place that far and NONE got into place as the P-47s got there, why?

The explanation you give would hold in certain circumstances. I don't see that applying here at all. Unless it means that within that hex they're flying around looking for the T-Bolts. That seems odd though since it doesn't take very long to fly halfway across a hex or just over 20 miles, at 250-300 mph.

Small hint: the more you kill the better, try everything in the book. There is half a year production gap between the D25 and the N version which comes online early ´45. If you attrit the Tbolts enough you might buy some breathing space until the N version arrives.

I was pretty happy with the result of July 5 just for this reason, but July 4 was just plain ugly and I don't want to repeat that if possible.

[inqistor]

If you had not read battle description, it would look quite OK [:)]


I could give some theories, but since it happened twice in the same base, it can not be coincidence.
I doubt it is because altitude, because I have seen such situations at least three times during CV battles. Weather is also discarded, because it happened twice.

So... the only explanation I can give is that it is something caused by highest commander (it would explain CV battles). Check your Air HQs in range, and note if their Commanders have some of their skills really low.
It could be also because some statistics of main Base Unit (like morale), but that would not work for CVs, as every ship is probably checked individually.

[JocMeister]

I wouldn´t use the second day to draw any conclusions. I messed up when doing the turn and actually didn´t change the sweep from the previous day. So its the same guys going in on both days. I´m guessing fatigue were around 20-30. So thats why you did better on the second day.

I´d say lack of radar is 95% of the problem. I think the reason for the lack of CAP is that the "estimated time to target" is very low. So you CAP doesn´t have enough time to get into position. With radar you would get a longer period of time for the CAP to organize and get airborne.

[JocMeister]

I wouldn´t use the second day to draw any conclusions. I messed up when doing the turn and actually didn´t change the sweep from the previous day. So its the same guys going in on both days. I´m guessing fatigue were around 20-30. So thats why you did better on the second day.

I´d say lack of radar is 95% of the problem. I think the reason for the lack of CAP is that the "estimated time to target" is very low. So you CAP doesn´t have enough time to get into position. With radar you would get a longer period of time for the CAP to organize and get airborne.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Raid spotted at 39 NM, estimated altitude 47,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes


You spotted the raid 11 minutes out in the second attack and 9 minutes out in the first. Which basically means that you had 11 minutes for your CAP to climb and react. Your CAP was set to patrol at altitudes of 15,000 and 20,000 feet. Basically faster. better armed aircraft came in and hit your blind base and were not spotted in time for a cohesive reaction. If I were the Allied player and did not get these results or better then I would have been crying the blues..[;)] Sometimes the game gets it exactly right. I don't think I would try to defend a base at this stage of the war without radar. You had you CAP up but that does not mean it was in position to do anything. Sometimes this game gets it very right.

An allied base force with good radar would have picked this sort of raid up at about 60-100 miles out and even with 10% CAP would have put up a good defense.

I really think you would have seen a world of difference if you had radar.

In addition there is the issue of the uber high sweep which is bad news for Japan once the Allied get their second generation fighters. It is one area of the game where I believe a house rule in is order. Some disagree though.

I completely get that the Allies should be better, just not 15:1 better!

Do the different radar capabilities basically show the advantages the Allies had in communications as well, getting planes to organize based on information? If so then I understand this result much better. Or maybe I can read it that way at least. I only realized this unit didn't have it's radar device when I started getting info for this thread.

The odd thing is that Japanese fighters do pretty well in 42 largely without radar. I don't ever remember a scenario like this but I'd have to look back of course.

Jocke and I are using the 2nd best maneuver band HR, and because this gave a big advantage to the Tojo and Japanese planes early, we've stuck with it even though it's skewing results of strato-sweeps now. I don't like them to be honest, but I agree the P-40 was neutered early and so I'm going along with this. It'll be a while before I can field anything that goes over 31k. The Ki-84r and the Ki-83 do I think.

[LoBaron]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

I think I can help obvert. [:)]

ORIGINAL: obvert
CAP engaged:
S-302 Kokutai with J2M3 Jack (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 25 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes

The crucial lines in this combat report are not the bold ones, but the ones I have marked in red in the above example.

Sadly, IMHO, the line "not yet engaged" is very misleading. Because in truth it means: there are 3 planes already airborne, but engaged otherwise. Means: either already in combat in said hex, or diverted to support CAP in a different hex. Check the combat report again, you got loads of fighters in the "not yet engaged" status.

Those fighters are most probably your complete initial airborne contingent, thats why you only have scrambling fighters left to engage the sweepers.

This, in combination with the low detection range of the sweeps because you lack early warning, leads to your inferior position. Although it might be not deciding, as Tbolts incoming at high alt are extremely difficult to stop.

I would agree with you except that these were the only combats in this hex or nearby, and the groups were all set to 0 range. No other sweeps or bombing missions took place even in the extended range of these planes had they been set there.

However you read it they certainly were 'not yet engaged.' If they were out of place that far and NONE got into place as the P-47s got there, why?

The explanation you give would hold in certain circumstances. I don't see that applying here at all. Unless it means that within that hex they're flying around looking for the T-Bolts. That seems odd though since it doesn't take very long to fly halfway across a hex or just over 20 miles, at 250-300 mph.

Fact is: A lot of your fighters were airborne - in accordance to your settings - but for some reason unable to engage at the moment the sweep arrived over target.

If this was not caused by another engagement it might have been due to short detection range and the high speed of the incoming P47s, which resulted in your airborne CAP being out of position at the moment they arrived over your base, which is quite plausable without proper radar vectoring. They did not have enough time to assemble and intercept, catching the airborne CAP initially out of position or missing the sweep, and later to arrive in dribles mixed with scrambling fighters.

Don´t forget that the CAP engaged details of the combat report show you a momentous description of the tactical situation at the moment the battle began, and does not tell you anything about the way the battle ensued, except for the time estimate for all fighters to engage.


My personal opinion on this situation is, that in case you need to defend this area against those odds - except for lots and lots of fighters - you need early warning. Not providing that you are wasting your assets and accept fight from an inferior position. This number of P47s is awfully hard to beat, even under optimal circumstances. This does not neccesarily mean a land based radar btw. Some radar equipped ships work as well, Sorong is a coastal hex.

[obvert]

Some radar equipped ships work as well, Sorong is a coastal hex.

Great point! I never considered that. Won't work here, but maybe elsewhere.

In fact Sorong was just invaded, so that was something of a last stand for the aircraft there, hence my willingness to reveal sensitive information. [;)]

I accept what you're saying here, and I really think this is modeled correctly, I just didn't get it from the reports previously. It makes more sense now and seems to model the inability of the Japanese to get planes to vector into position without the good radar and communication the Allies had available.

[LoBaron]

Still, don´t expect to avoid some 15:1 results against overwhelming P47 odds in the future as well. They are killer planes, easily the best the Allies can field in ´44. But they suffer pretty high ops losses against well setup CAP on longer range sweeps, something you often get no notice of in the reports because of FOW.