When?

World in Flames is the computer version of Australian Design Group classic board game. World In Flames is a highly detailed game covering the both Europe and Pacific Theaters of Operations during World War II. If you want grand strategy this game is for you.

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von altair
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RE: When?

Post by von altair »

Once in while I come here and check "when". At this rate, we are going to die in old age while waiting!
"An nescis, mi fili, quantilla prudentia mundus regatur?"

"Do you not know, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed?"

-Axel Oxenstierna
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Blorsh
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RE: When?

Post by Blorsh »

ORIGINAL: Steely Glint

Right on schedule for a Christmas 2015 release, me thinks. I hope it's worth the wait. [8|]

No matter how good it is it won't be. No game on earth is worth this kind of wait.

Seven years ago I really wanted this game, but it's been so long that I just don't care any more.

[&o][&o][&o][&o][&o] I think the same.

We are waiting more yeras for MWIF than years was Hitler Fürehr of The Third Reich.
bo
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RE: When?

Post by bo »

ORIGINAL: Blorsh

ORIGINAL: Steely Glint

Right on schedule for a Christmas 2015 release, me thinks. I hope it's worth the wait. [8|]

No matter how good it is it won't be. No game on earth is worth this kind of wait.

Seven years ago I really wanted this game, but it's been so long that I just don't care any more.

[&o][&o][&o][&o][&o] I think the same.

We are waiting more yeras for MWIF than years was Hitler Fürehr of The Third Reich.

Thank the lord Blorsh that you have only posted 17 times because if they were like this post I would need to take a lorazapan or maybe 2 of them reading your post [:@], how about spell checking once in a while [;)]

Bo
bo
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RE: When?

Post by bo »

ORIGINAL: von altair

Once in while I come here and check "when". At this rate, we are going to die in old age while waiting!

You joined in 2004 von altair, you need to go to a patience basic training camp. [:D]
Hang in there sir.

Bo
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RE: When?

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

June 1, 2013 Status Report for Matrix Games’ MWIF Forum

Accomplishments of May 2013

Hardware and Software
The open items for Theme Engine remain: minimizing the game generates a Mad Except error, and so does trying to display detailed listings of file directories (i.e., the dates and stuff) when opening or saving a file. There is now a new one (it occurs sporadically when running under Windows XP) having to do with “rolling up a form”; rolling up a form minimizes the form to the size of the form’s top bar.

Beta Testing
In May I released 7 new versions to the beta testers: 10.03.04 (25 fixes - 5 made in May), 10.03.05 (2 fixes), 10.03.06 (9 fixes), 10.03.07 (20 fixes), 10.04.00 (13 fixes), 10.04.01 (12 fixes), and 10.04.02 (10 fixes). The number of new versions is back to my norm. But the fixes (71) are still well below my average (116). Debugging supply takes a lot of time. Another major time destroyer was fixing a couple of overwriting memory bugs.

Overwriting memory is the nastiest bug there is. The program scribbles on its own code causing the code to execute in a bizarre manner. However, it isn’t immediately obvious that the program has done this. Instead, the program runs fine for a while until the problem manifests itself later in the program’s execution, causing code that previously had run perfectly (sometimes for years) to malfunction. So the programmer (me) spends days looking for a bug in the wrong place. Only after absolutely convincing myself that the code where the problem occurs is fine, do I consider the possibility of overwriting memory (OM) having occurred. Proving that OM is the problem takes time and the only real way to locate an OM bug is to do a binary search using what I call canary code. If the canary code fails, then OM has occurred. If the canary code still works, then the OM bug happens later. Typically it takes a lot of dead canaries before the problem can be fault isolated. Mercifully, once the bug is located, the necessary code modification usually requires changing only 1 or 2 lines of code. Prior to the two OM bugs in May, I only had one in the previous 8 years I‘ve been working on MWIF.

Below is the summary of my Master Task List (MTL) as of June 1st. My task list count stands at 80, down from 84 at the start of the month. I am still more concerned about NetPlay than the other bugs. The latter dropped to 63 (from last month’s count of 72). I’m still spending too much time dealing with bugs caused by my rewrite of supply. The only solution is to keep hammering away at them one by one; right now there are 6 of the little suckers left.

None of the other bugs in the sequence of play and non-sequence of play is of much concern to me. For instance, I fixed 10 of them in one day towards the end of May. What happened was that the beta testers had gotten my bug list count over 100, which annoyed me no end. So I spent a couple days knocking off a bunch of easy ones.

NetPlay [17] 1589, {1594, 1859}, 1785, 1826, 1827, 1911, 1912, 1913, 1914, 1915, 1916, 1921, 1932, 1933, 1934, 1935, 1936

Sequence of Play [45]
Supply [6]: 1070, 1947, 1956, 1960, 1966, 1969
Setup Phases [1]: {1900, 1944}
Air Missions [3]: 1611, 1890, 1925
Naval Combat [11]: {874, 1531}, 1566, 1599, 1701, 1724, 1815, 1847, 1868, 1869, 1872, 1899
Reorganization [3]: 1855, 1856, 1896
Production Planning [13]: 1107, {847, 961, 1347}, 326, 1644, 1671, 1825, 1862, 1863, 1864, 1871, 1893, 1895, 1973
Search Seizure [1]: 409
Reform Units [1]: 1851
Vichy [2]: 1803, 1811
Liberation [2]: 891, 1919
Overstacked Digression [1]: 1931
Final Reorganization [1]: 1733

Non-sequence of Play [18]
Detailed Map [5]: 1188, 142, 769,140, 1501
Player Interface [3]: 1901, 1920, 1922
Game Save/Restore [7]: 695, 517, 110, 118, 1778, 1907, 1924
Theme Engine [3]: {1050, 568}, {1513, 1467, 966, 1455, 1573, 1655}, 1928


Saved Games
Done, except for 7 bugs.

Map, Units, and Scenarios
As I get additional unit writeups I add them to the collection.

Optional Rules
Nothing new.

Game Engine
There are ~80 places in the sequence of play where supply is recalculated. At this point I have deleted all the CWIF code concerning supply. For debugging purposes, I installed a temporary message bar to the bottom of the Main form to report the amount of time spent in each of the 23 steps for recalculating supply. In many situations it takes less than 10 milliseconds total. In most it takes less than 100. Even 1000 milliseconds is acceptable when major changes have occurred. For example, when the weather changes for the worst and numerous units are now OOS (out-of-supply).

Simple moves in friendly territory are very fast, since supply only needs to be recalculated for the moving unit. Rail moves, air units returning to base, and most land moves are in this category. Moves into and out of the front line sometimes cause changes in supply because of enemy ZOCs. Moving HQs always has more effects on supply, since the units that the HQ had been supplying now need to find a new source of supply, even if it is just the same HQ in a different hex.

Changing control of a hex, by having a land unit move through enemy territory, or when a minor country joins the war, usually affects just half the units on each side. The side gaining control of new hexes might have previously OOS units now in-supply. The side losing control of hexes might have some of its previously in-supply units OOS. The program logic therefore does not reassess supply for all the units on the map, just those whose supply might have changed. Similar logic applies when units move into and out of sea areas. One side might have previously OOS units now capable of finding supply, while the other side has previously in-supply units now OOS.

From the short discussion on supply above, I think it should be obvious why a lot of code is involved. I have ~20 flags that get set as units move into and out of hexes/sea areas. Then once the units have reached their destination (which may be off-map), I run the 23 step routine to recalculate supply, which executes different steps depending on which flags have been set. The payoff for all this effort is that supply updates quickly and dynamically as units are moved onto, around, and off the map.

Player Interface
This is done except for 5 bugs related to maintaining the beauty of the Detailed Map and 3 found by the new beta testers concerning different monitor configurations.

Internet - NetPlay
I did virtually no work on this in May - very aggravating. I fixed a few tangential items, but none of the serious stuff. It is pointless to work on NetPlay if the game has serious bugs in the sequence of play when running in solitaire mode.

PBEM
Nothing new.

Artificial Intelligence (AI)
Nothing new.

Player’s Manual and Rules as Coded (RAC)
All printed materials are in Final Layout. I’ve seen PDFs of both RAC and the Players Manual, but both of them lack graphics. That’s not too bad for RAC, which only has 20 or so figures. But the Players Manual has 270+ figures, so without them the PDF is really difficult to proof read. The attached graphic is a collage of some of the screenshots in the Players Manual section 7, which describes the sequence of play.

Tutorials and Training Videos
The Tutorials are done. Nothing new on completing the training videos.

Historical Video, Music, and Sound Effects
Nothing new.

Web Site
Nothing new.

Marketing
Nothing new.

Image
Attachments
SeqOfPlayCollage.jpg
SeqOfPlayCollage.jpg (914.12 KiB) Viewed 232 times
Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.
Lingering Frey
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RE: Proper Place?

Post by Lingering Frey »

Just my 2 cents on the question of "when" in reaction to a couple of recent posts.

STOP "waiting" for the game. You shouldn't be waiting. If you think it is "not worth the length of waiting", you would have been better off not knowing it was in development. If it ever releases, be happy and surprised by it when it does. If you want to play WiF on a computer with friends (sadly, no AI) when it comes out and you have the money to spare, buy the program.

To put it in perspective, I am absolutely CERTAIN that there is some game (not WiF, just SOME game in the future...maybe the 4th version of Total War:Rome) that I will desperately want to play that will end up being released in 2030. I don't know what that game might be, but I'm sure there will be some game released that year that I will want to play. Should I "lose interest" in it because I am going to have to wait 17 years to play it?
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heyhellowhatsnew
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RE: Proper Place?

Post by heyhellowhatsnew »

Release a public beta.
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RE: Proper Place?

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

ORIGINAL: heyhellowhatsnew

Release a public beta.
Why?
Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.
andyc63
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RE: Proper Place?

Post by andyc63 »

Those of us lowly fans would rather play a buggy version and help with the development rather than wait for perfection. I missed the beta test sign up time limit so yeah i would love an open beta. I actively participate with Slitherene betas
Genshed62 aka Mr. Mayhem
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RE: Proper Place?

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

ORIGINAL: genshed62

Those of us lowly fans would rather play a buggy version and help with the development rather than wait for perfection. I missed the beta test sign up time limit so yeah i would love an open beta. I actively participate with Slitherene betas
But that wouldn't really help get the game done any faster.

It takes part of my time just to read through the bug reports from the beta testers and understand what they are reporting. If I think the report is for a bug that actually exists, then I investigate - and oftentimes I find it is not a bug. For those bugs that pass my filters, there is the task of writing it up clearly so I bring the problem into focus.

The game is enormous in so many ways (scenarios, optional rules, phases, unit types, size of the map, number of turns, number of countries, and rules - both general and exceptions to general rules). Stating explicitly what is wrong under what circumstances is crucial for fixing a problem. I also need to know the version of the game, and for some of the bugs, the player's hardware and software configurations.

Having dozens, or hundreds, of other players reporting things in their own words and style would be overwhelming. I estimate that thousands of people are reading my monthly reports, so if only 10% of them started testing a free beta, the resulting bug reports for 3 or 4 well known existing bugs would be chaos on wheels.[X(]
Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.
CrusssDaddy
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RE: Proper Place?

Post by CrusssDaddy »

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


I estimate that thousands of people are reading my monthly reports,

HAHAHA RU SIRIUS? That is an absurd embellishment. Or your ability to estimate is hopelessly deficient. Which is more likely? Ah, it can also be both...
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RE: Proper Place?

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


I estimate that thousands of people are reading my monthly reports,

HAHAHA RU SIRIUS? That is an absurd embellishment. Or your ability to estimate is hopelessly deficient. Which is more likely? Ah, it can also be both...
Well you see, every month I record the number of hits to the When and Monthly report threads. So my comment is based on facts I have gathered over the past 6+ years.

And your comment is based on ....?
Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.
CrusssDaddy
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RE: Proper Place?

Post by CrusssDaddy »

"Number of hits" does not equal "Number of people." You know this. I give you 15-20 hits a month and I'm not that very active. My comment is based on common sense and a precisely tuned bull$hit detector.
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warspite1
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RE: Proper Place?

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

"Number of hits" does not equal "Number of people." You know this. I give you 15-20 hits a month and I'm not that very active. My comment is based on common sense and a precisely tuned bull$hit detector.
warspite1

So since the May report there have been 8 new posts - but you visit 15-20 times??? What are you hoping the posts magically change since last reading or do you have to read slowly and in small doses? [8|]

As for the finely tuned BS detector - I have no doubt you have one and that it is indeed finely tuned - after use on yourself, the original BSer...
Now Maitland, now's your time!

Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
CrusssDaddy
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RE: Proper Place?

Post by CrusssDaddy »

I know, the utter collapse of the active posting community is the obvious clue that "thousands" of readers is an absurd assertion -- finally we agree on something!
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warspite1
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RE: Proper Place?

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

I know, the utter collapse of the active posting community is the obvious clue that "thousands" of readers is an absurd assertion -- finally we agree on something!
warspite1

You do know that not everyone that visits posts yeah? You are confusing posts with hits. But I'm not going to get into an argument over something you already know - but do not want to admit because it doesn't suit your purpose.

Right know there have been 536,964 hits to the when thread, and 33,973 to the Monthly Reports thread. Lets see where we are this time next month i.e. one day after Steve's July post.
Now Maitland, now's your time!

Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
CrusssDaddy
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RE: Proper Place?

Post by CrusssDaddy »

Posts do not equal unique visitors do not equal hits, yep we should all understand that. Intuitively, does "thousands of people" sound correct to you? Thousands of hits yes, but we've already established the irrelevancy of hits to this discussion.

Hopefully this trifle can be resolved so we can return to the crucial issue of German partisans, which resolution of certainly is the sole remaining item holding up release.
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warspite1
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RE: Proper Place?

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

Posts do not equal unique visitors do not equal hits, yep we should all understand that. Intuitively, does "thousands of people" sound correct to you? Thousands of hits yes, but we've already established the irrelevancy of hits to this discussion.

Hopefully this trifle can be resolved so we can return to the crucial issue of German partisans, which resolution of certainly is the sole remaining item holding up release.
warspite1

I have no idea whether the visitor numbers to this site have been growing or declining over the years. For every old name I no longer see, there are new arrivals. What the net effect is I cannot say, although when I asked "where the old crowd" was on the forum a while back, almost all the old names confirmed they were still around, checking in from time to time, even if no longer particularly active.

One thing I can say with absolute certainty is that most people who have given up on the project or have just gone off and done something else, will return when its done.

And to those that have taken that route, I think it far more mature to decide to simply walk away than to lamely try and childishly heckle from the stands like some people - a course of action which is neither productive nor grown-up, but lazy and boorish.

BTW, and as you no doubt know, the "issue" of German partisans is not in anyway holding up the game because they are not in the game.
Now Maitland, now's your time!

Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
CrusssDaddy
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RE: Proper Place?

Post by CrusssDaddy »

ORIGINAL: warspite1

BTW, and as you no doubt know, the "issue" of German partisans is not in anyway holding up the game because they are not in the game.

Oh Lord, I guess I should have included smilies... I hope the thousands of people reading this are not likewise confused. [:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:'(][:D][:D][:)][&:][8|][&o][:-][:'(][:'(]
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warspite1
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RE: Proper Place?

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy
ORIGINAL: warspite1

BTW, and as you no doubt know, the "issue" of German partisans is not in anyway holding up the game because they are not in the game.

Oh Lord, I guess I should have included smilies... I hope the thousands of people reading this are not likewise confused. [:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:'(][:D][:D][:)][&:][8|][&o][:-][:'(][:'(]
warspite1

Oh I see..... you were being sarcastic?? Well whooda thunk it? [8|]

You know some people think you are crass, boorish, pathetic, childish and stupid, but......

[thousands of readers] - "finish the sentence warspite1"

No, that's it - nothing more to add [:'(].

Bye CrusssDaddy.
Now Maitland, now's your time!

Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
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