The Good, the bad and the ugly

[Jagdhund]

I just wanted to give you some feedback on the new game. I have played all the CC series original and matrix remakes ( I own them all). I have to say in totality I like PitF the least of the last 3 releases. Overall the new force pool/battle group UI and system was novel at first but it's shortcomings made it a detriment. I understand you were making it more realistic but realistically I could commit only command units to fight etcetera if I wanted to. This is a big problem when the force pool gets severely depleted. I should be able to command my units to fight no matter what type they are.

The Good

-The new graphics look great!!! they have needed an upgrade for years.
- I like the fog but graphically it make my gameplay much slower, I have an older card. THX for the option to disable.
- I like the new mortar aiming mechanism.
- I like that soldier experience is saved.
- LOVE being able to mount and dismount guns/inf. on trucks/HT's wish you would of allowed inf. on tanks.

The Bad
- In battle group selection screen the 2nd battle group always takes the first 2 units in the platoon. Need a way to select what units from the platoon I will take if I only get a few of them. Also it stinks when I have 2 slots and I have 2 units in the platoon but can only take one of the because slots are only for non command units.

- Cannot use all my allotted slots because my platoons are all short one squad. Need a way to reassign squads between platoons.

- Replacements to the force pool are applied randomly. To make the new system work it would be nice to specify what platoons get the replacements. As a commander I would have control over that. Need to be able to refit depleted teams like you could in Cross of Iron.

- When telling mortars to shoot the same targets they are still shooting 1 spotting round. I thought the idea was that they had it dialed in.

- When giving armor a sneak backwards command they do not maintain facing and often turn to face destination direction.
- Telling armor to defend a certain direction does not change it's hull facing if it is under fire.

- Armor pathing is really bad. Parked a jeep between buildings with plenty of space between them and it could not move forward or backwards.

- Infantry move orders that are close by, like shifting sides of a house, often gives a cannot reach the destination error.

- German grenadiers have too many MGs. The order of battles I read said that on the Western front the units were not well equipped and had older MG 39's and foreign MG's. I would have it be a % chance like panzerfausts are now.

- MG 42's in grenadier squads are way too accurate. The MG 42 had an amazing rate of fire but poorer ACC than the MG 39.

- Grenadier squads are carrying WAY too much ammo for MG 42!!! 1500 rounds is the same as a dedicated MG squad. Should be 750, like MG Inf. in past CC's.

- Old bug seems to have crept in where infantry in good cover keeps seeking cover and wind themselves. Seems to happen a lot with mortar squads. If I am dug in my mortar team should be ready to fire as soon as the timer starts!

- scout cars should be fairly resistant to Inf. fire and mg fire except maybe the .50 cal. Though I could see the fire suppressing them a bit as it would be unnerving. I might be wrong on this one but I think the puma and other scout cars were fairly well armored against inf. fire.

-In the strategic map the unit in reserve cannot move to the same hexes as the primary unit in the area. This makes no sense, if I own the exit point I should be able to move either the primary or secondary unit into the hex.

The Ugly

- Teams are taking initiative way too often and support squads should be immune from this. Really tired of my mortar teams or MG squad getting slaughtered just because they decide to "go see what's happening"! Also very frustrating when you go to shoot that last salvo of mortars you have been saving and you cant because the teams is out having a walk. In RL this would just never happen. Only place it would make sense is with the foreign troops the Germans used and even then they knew they would be shot if caught. US and Germans were too disciplined to abandon their assigned post. Also with 21 units to manage/larger maps, it becomes MUCH harder to notice and correct this.

-The Strategic AI is really bad. First, it will attack with no regard for supply. I have had enemy units move deeper into my lines and effectively make themselves surrounded. Easy pickings. This might make some sense for Germans attacking but not for Americans. Units out of supply should try to fight their way back into supply and other units should try to fight their way to surrounded troops. Should be some logic like: will move X put me 2 moves out of supply if so then find another move. Lastly, the AI will attack with a depleted recon company when in reserve there is a fresh 2+ armored company. Made it easy to defeat the Americans. AI should always attack or defend with it's strongest Company.

- I have had the Stuart puncture the front armor on a panther at 200+m on several occasions, yes the panther was directly facing the Stuart. You need to look at your penetration tables/armor values. I hope you are having pen. trail off/decrease at range.

- Trucks/jeeps should not die the first shot from infantry. Just had an inf. squad kill my truck driver at 200-300 m. at night while it was moving. This happens too often and too easily. Sorry would love to see you do that in RL! MG fire, AP or HE rounds I get but Inf. fire should taper off pretty quick at distance.

- Units firing at other units that are not on the map. I have had my panthers shooting at a M4 that I could not see. If my units can see it I should see it and if they can't see it they should stop shooting. I get the principle of area fire but that is a bad use of ammo if ammo is short and tanks should not be wasting AP round on "ghosts".

- Hedge rows don't stop sighting or fire for non-adjacent units. Tired of my units getting shot up moving in the open by a ground level unit that is 50 yds from the hedgerow it is shooting through. Please bring back the old realistic hedgerows.


Overall I am disappointed you got rid of the point buy system. I know the new system is more realistic, though it too has holes because in time of need a commander can tell the cooks to go fight and they have! I think the unit selection is too restrictive. I for one LOVE the point buy system and would love it if you preserved the units and allowed us to refit them via points like you could in Cross of Iron. You could make the old style force pool expandable like you can with email threads and preserve the units that way. Overall the new force selection system is just not FUN. I liked being able to totally modify my BG composition to meet the task at hand. Maybe the answer is a hybrid of the two. I think if your next game has this same BG/force pools system I will not buy it. I am not making a threat, just being honest.

Keep up the good work.

-Jag

[Tejszd]

Good feedback!

[napodx]

Operation Lüttich is a prelude to Falaise pocket. Production team only finish the half of the campaign in my point[X(]

[SteveMcClaire]

Thanks for your feedback Jagdhund,

Just as a note, several issues you mention as problems have been addressed or improved in the most recent updates, specifically the path finding / vehicle movement issues.

Steve

[nietsche]

The pathing issues where a tank turns sideways or even rotates 360 degrees and more! are there in the new version/patch. It seems that there is an additional issues in that the tanks on the german side are liable to track and are attracted to hedges etc so that they are frequently lost and disabled. This happens even when travelling along a road and the tank goes at 45 degrees into the hedge...

Mortars are actually too accurate. The targeting system is good. Accuracy and rate of fire are both too high and make it near impossible to manoeuvre infantry.. Reduced likelihood of destroying enclosed armour is a welcome improvement. I edited the repeat rate to half and that makes the game better. Trying out options for reducing accuracy of the mortars (for both sides) hoping that this will improve infantry playability too ... and be a bit more realistic.

I think consideration should be given to allowing some additional "low value" support units such as sniper and truck (possibly the panzerfaust and bazooka too) to be available on top of the high value ones such as tanks. One or two slots depending on the overall unit size would add to the game and encourage some diversity.

[Jagdhund]

I have the 1.01 patch installed and the backup bug happens rarely but the turn your side or ass to the enemy bug happens often. I think the tank should pivot to face the target it is shooting at. Try moving a tank in a direction and then when it comes into sight of a target right in front of it give a fire order and often the tank will expose it's side.

Also a new behavior over the last 2 CC's that is bad is that ambushed infantry engage armor before they are in grenade bundle/P-faust rage and then they get sighted and slaughtered.

Thanks for replying by the way,

-Jag

ORIGINAL: Steve McClaire

Thanks for your feedback Jagdhund,

Just as a note, several issues you mention as problems have been addressed or improved in the most recent updates, specifically the path finding / vehicle movement issues.

Steve

[nietsche]

Noticed that too ... totally unlikely behaviour from infantry near tanks. If they wait a few metres more the tank just falls into the trap. As it actually happened.

[Kanov]

Agree with Jagdhund.

Also a new behavior over the last 2 CC's that is bad is that ambushed infantry engage armor before they are in grenade bundle/P-faust rage and then they get sighted and slaughtered.

This is very annoying. They don't hide anymore, if they see a tank nearby they try to engage it even if they don't have AT weapons!

In Atomic's CC the infantry could let a tank pass by them provided the tank didn't not see them, so is something added in the re-releases that should not be there.