Final Word on Energy

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balto
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Final Word on Energy

Post by balto »

I had been away from DW for a year. I am back again waiting for the shadows. I think this is probably the best of all games I have ever owned.

With that said, last year, I thought the Forum was saying that when designing ships, the formula for Energy was HDrive+Static+Shield+Weapons.

I come back and the formula was corrected to be the greater of (a) Sprint+Static+Shield+Weapons, or (b) HDrive+Shield+Static. We have comments on formula (a) possibly being Cruise instead of Sprint because you possibly do not fire during Sprint.

I therefore have two questions;

(1) Is it Cruise or Sprint in the formula (a) because this makes a big difference in the beginning when you scramble for every little piece of energy when designing your own ships.

(2) Why are many of the ships still underpowered when using this formula? For example in the tutorial the Iskenderun Destroyer has Power of 260, but weapons alone are 254 and shields are 6 and static is 10. So before we take into consideration any engines, we are at an Energy deficit of (-10). Please educate me on how to handle Energy in my designs.
Bingeling
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RE: Final Word on Energy

Post by Bingeling »

You have to pay for the extra reactor, or give up power to save energy.

If they do sprint and shoot (I am not sure), that will be rare. Watch their speeds in combat, when you know the sprint speed.

If they are short 10 energy, they will lose a bit firepower and a bit speed. Is that worth paying for the extra reactor? You got some energy reserve to help in spikes, and ships are not always moving while in combat.
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Darkspire
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RE: Final Word on Energy

Post by Darkspire »

ORIGINAL: balto

I had been away from DW for a year. I am back again waiting for the shadows. I think this is probably the best of all games I have ever owned.

With that said, last year, I thought the Forum was saying that when designing ships, the formula for Energy was HDrive+Static+Shield+Weapons.

I come back and the formula was corrected to be the greater of (a) Sprint+Static+Shield+Weapons, or (b) HDrive+Shield+Static. We have comments on formula (a) possibly being Cruise instead of Sprint because you possibly do not fire during Sprint.

I therefore have two questions;

(1) Is it Cruise or Sprint in the formula (a) because this makes a big difference in the beginning when you scramble for every little piece of energy when designing your own ships.

(2) Why are many of the ships still underpowered when using this formula? For example in the tutorial the Iskenderun Destroyer has Power of 260, but weapons alone are 254 and shields are 6 and static is 10. So before we take into consideration any engines, we are at an Energy deficit of (-10). Please educate me on how to handle Energy in my designs.

I have always worked it as 'Max Weapons Energy use + Sprint = Energy required' the static I ignore as you can put an Energy collector on for that, one normally suffices. Not sure where the shields come in, I can see no increase or decrease with power when adding or subtracting them, the only thing changing is the shield strength and the recharge rate. One other point of note is the hyperdrive speed is lowered if you do not add enough reactors, bit like Scotty trying to work with a AAA battery when he needs a 9V.

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Plant
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RE: Final Word on Energy

Post by Plant »

The formula is just the adding up of energy usage at different times, for when you create your own designs. So you choose whether you want to be able to sprint and fire all weapons, or cruise and fire all weapons to produce a good design. It is your choice. Some people design for sprint, others design for cruise.

As for ships being underpowered, I assume you are refering to AI designs? The formula isn't for automated designs, it's for custom designs.

For your Iskenderun Destroyer design, it means that it cannot cruise and shoot all weapons at the same time, if by Power, you mean Reactor Power Output.

It will also never cruise/move and fire all weapons at the same time.
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Darkspire
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RE: Final Word on Energy

Post by Darkspire »

ORIGINAL: Plant

The formula is just the adding up of energy usage at different times, for when you create your own designs. So you choose whether you want to be able to sprint and fire all weapons, or cruise and fire all weapons to produce a good design. It is your choice. Some people design for sprint, others design for cruise.

As for ships being underpowered, I assume you are refering to AI designs? The formula isn't for automated designs, it's for custom designs.

For your Iskenderun Destroyer design, it means that it cannot cruise and shoot all weapons at the same time, if by Power, you mean Reactor Power Output.

It will also never cruise/move and fire all weapons at the same time.

First off I am on about custom designs, I only use auto for the merchant fleet till Hydrogen Reactors are invented. My formula uses what I consider to be the max uses and then some, it means even at full usage the design still has power to spare, if you scale the energy usage to the classes current size then you end up with reasonably fast, powered ships with weapon damage scaling to match. For example if the max weapon energy usage of my destroyer is 58 and my sprint is 50 then I bolt on a reactor(s) that add a minimum of 108 energy. If the reactor(s) and or weapons slow(s) the ship down check the resource levels (engines eat Carbon Fiber) and add a few extra engines and thrusters.

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Plant
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RE: Final Word on Energy

Post by Plant »

First off, I wasn't replying to you, I am replying to the opening poster as is obvious by the post.

Secondly, in combat, energy collectors don't work for ships as they are moving.
Not everyone will want to add energy collectors to their ships, or add enough to negate the minor static energy needs.

Thirdly, Shields are supposed to use energy to recharge, I think it is 0.5 per Shield recharge rate, but I cannot be sure.

I didn't ask for your design philosophy, why are you replying as if I did just that?


Btw Bingeling, ships do sprint and shoot, for certain if set to point blank range. I am not sure about the other settings. Perhaps for the all weapons option, they sprint till all weapons are in range. I don't remember. I tested it all a long time ago in the original Distant Worlds and from then on, I only design ships for sprint.
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Darkspire
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RE: Final Word on Energy

Post by Darkspire »

My apologies, I thought this was a discussion about possible formulas for ship energy usage. I did not realize that replying to a comment was going to cause you a problem.

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jpwrunyan
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RE: Final Word on Energy

Post by jpwrunyan »

Two things:

1) Ships *can* fire and sprint but that doesn't mean you should design them to.

2) Also, there is no formula for ship design. Design ships to do what you want them to.

That said, here is why I design ships to fire at cruise speed (as opposed to sprint). Ships sprint until they are within firing range. Probably the enemy ships are doing the same. Once they are in range, the ships really don't need to move at all, but it appears they often go to cruise speed. Ship speed *does* (according to the documentation) affect how like enemy shots are to hit, but I still see my ships slowing to cruise speed once in range. So, the ship that fires more (ie higher firepower) is going to win, right? So I design my ships to fire every weapon at cruise speed. If the ship is sprinting it is either closing with the enemy, or attempting to flee a gravity trap (remember, hyperspace jump requires the ship to slow to impulse, iirc).

Now, make your own decisions about ship design. It *would* be nice if you could tell your ships in the design screen what speed they should use when engaging the enemy. Either fast-strikers or heavy-hitters. But, to repeat myself, it appears cruise speed is the accepted intergalactic military doctrine when shooting at the enemy.
balto
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RE: Final Word on Energy

Post by balto »

I do not disagree with anyone, but I think that by providing enough energy to fire at Sprint, you will have energy to fire at both Sprint and Cruise. If you use Cruise in your Energy Calculation, you will be firing at a suboptimal level when at Srint. So for me, unless there is something definitive, I think I will be conservative and design my ships with Sprint+Static+Shield+Weapons.

I also think that because no one really understands what the Stored Energy things is (it could be a capacitor), perhaps it is more efficient to use Cruise in your Energy Formula because the 'capacitor' will make up for the energy deficiency during the brief periods of Sprint.

Ahh, how knows. Thank you everyone and have a great evening.
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Plant
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RE: Final Word on Energy

Post by Plant »

Jpwrunyan, selecting point blank on the design screen tells them to use sprint, when engaging. I think they sprint till reaching minimum weapon range for the all weapons option.

You don't have to design for fire and sprint, but it's within your own decision to do so, just as it is for cruise and fire all weapons.
The speed difference between cruise and sprint is huge, and the weapon difference between cruise and sprint is very much less so, since all you are removing are the space efficient reactors.

The difference between cruise and sprint energy needs could be one reactor or none at all, even in size 15000 ships.
So one reactor is removed, and perhaps an extra weapon and sheild is added.
Not worth it for a difference for something like 40 to 70 speed.

One thing missing from the formula is Vectoring Engine's energy usage. Think even when sprint, the vector engines can still be used.

As for energy storage, they come as part of the reactors to store energy as a necessary part of weapons firing, since weapons fire in bursts of energy, not used continuously.
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