The Game is Called!!! A-Game welcome!

[Peltonx]

I went back and reread some of the armament issues with Wolf and Bear and the current armament issue is far worse then before.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

Too late to post a turn but just ended T 143.

-Front line strength down to 2.43 million.

-600k men in reserve.

This game is over! While I'm going to fight like hell and give A-Game the glory of marching to Berlin I simply cannot even hold a line together. Half of my Infantry divisions are less than 1 CV...most of my mech units have 0 motor squads unless they just arrived, all 3 fronts breaking. Only the SS units and the Finns are maintaining the fight and the Finns are about to break. I have disbanded half my SU's to focus replacements on front line units but armament demand is too high. I'm about to start withdrawing 2-3 hexes a turn to outrun his rails and buy me time till mud hits. Hopefully I can recover enough to prepare defenses and soak up several hundred thousand replacements. The only reason my OOB didn't spiral sooner is the 700k armament stockpile I had up to June 43. My AAR tells I didn't play recklessly..something is amiss.

Not sure how to approach it from here. Hopefully some tweaks can be made to make the late game playable. Anyone else have 44-45 games that went differently? (vs a human of course)

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Disgruntled Veteran

Too late to post a turn but just ended T 143.

-Front line strength down to 2.43 million.

-600k men in reserve.

This game is over! While I'm going to fight like hell and give A-Game the glory of marching to Berlin I simply cannot even hold a line together. Half of my Infantry divisions are less than 1 CV...most of my mech units have 0 motor squads unless they just arrived, all 3 fronts breaking. Only the SS units and the Finns are maintaining the fight and the Finns are about to break. I have disbanded half my SU's to focus replacements on front line units but armament demand is too high. I'm about to start withdrawing 2-3 hexes a turn to outrun his rails and buy me time till mud hits. Hopefully I can recover enough to prepare defenses and soak up several hundred thousand replacements. The only reason my OOB didn't spiral sooner is the 700k armament stockpile I had up to June 43. My AAR tells I didn't play recklessly..something is amiss.

Not sure how to approach it from here. Hopefully some tweaks can be made to make the late game playable. Anyone else have 44-45 games that went differently? (vs a human of course)

Just a total disaster and it has nothing to do with you or A-game sadly no one seems to care.


Could you post the OOB, manpower pool on the last turn of Dec 1944? Just so we can have an idea how quickly things balloned.

Tech forum would be great, but here is fine also.

looking back it looks like your OOB was at 3 million Dec 30th 1943 and now your at 2.43 million lol minus 570,000 and 600,00 in manpower pool, how stange, not.

[rmonical]

DV, would you please show both lists of units with MR squads? The same for rifle squads. I think we are closing in on the cause of this.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

ORIGINAL: rmonical

DV, would you please show both lists of units with MR squads? The same for rifle squads. I think we are closing in on the cause of this.

How do I do this? Sorry I'm still somewhat new to this game.

Edit: Interestingly enough, this turn I do not have multiple types of rifle and motor squads. Just one in the production screen.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

Ok so it looks like only 7 divisions have the 43-45 motor rifle squads. These are only the mech squads. As I go through my armor it looks like they use the 41-43 squad which isn't being produced. However, I still would like to know how to list all of these on a screen. I'm just going through them and selecting them one by one.

Edit: Lol nvm. Just click on the #. Its the small things that get you.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

Motorized Squads 39-43

[Disgruntled Veteran]

Motorized rifle squads 41-43

[Disgruntled Veteran]

Motorized Rifle Squads 43-45 (Current Production)

[Disgruntled Veteran]

Most of my rifle divisions have upgraded and are using the correct squad. Also of note is the 1st Pz Division upgraded to 44 TOE on the turn I just got back.

[Peltonx]

So I was right again, but now how do they save our games?

ORIGINAL: Helpless

Or he has an updated data set that's not yet released for WitE.

Well, it is other way around. I have too old files. Apparently Jim removed the upgrade in order to slowdown the conversion. So there is no disconnects between code and data, as it really slows it down

tm.asp?m=3311677&mpage=2

tm.asp?m=3310682&mpage=4

Thank the 3 amigos for finding the bug. I knew it was there and have for a long time but can't speak nerf( computer code) and have to play out games for months and months to prove my point.

The 3 amigos hopefully will find a fix for all the current games.

I feel your pain DV as my game is 1/2 as screwed up as yours.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]TURN 144 - MARCH 16, 1944 [/center]

The title says it all. Most of my infantry are 1-2 CV and none of my armor and most of my mech have 0 motorized squads. The Nazi program shut down motor squad factories in lieu of a mass grave building program . In this pic the Rumanian 3rd and 4th were cut off but he only pulled a loose isolation. Luckily the Rumanian armor was in the pocket and it broke the isolation effect. This should allow me to move my German 'reserves' and help them get out. However, I see the whole Southern Front falling back 6-8 hexes after this. We need some time to rebuild.

OOB - 2.38 million front line. I fielded 96k replacements this turn but lost 130k. Luckily some WITE compatriots are helping bring light to any possible issues that may be plaguing late war axis players.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]TURN 144 - MARCH 16, 1944 - NORTHERN FRONT[/center]

Same thing as the South. Simply unable to hold a line and a mass retreat is about to begin. Now that Blizzard has ended he can penetrate much further making mass encirclements much more of a possibility.

[Peltonx]

Your GHC bug OOB crash started in Jan 43 sorry to say.

Units were not fliping fast enough ( read tech thread) so thats what quickly eat up your 700k in armaments.

The mess your in now would never have happened in the first plase if things were converting right. Your lines would have helded into spring 44 NP I am guesing based on allot of late war exp.

I would restart your game starting 1st turn of January 1943 as no hot patch will fix your snowballing disaster.

As we old verterns know very small things can snowball into a huge disaster and that what happened starting Jan 43.

Personally I thought it started mid 43, but looks like Jan 43.

Sorry.

I played my game based on the FACT I knew something was screwed up, why the disaster has just begun. But still my army would be much stronger then it is now.

I have my fingers crossed something can be done, but the damage is done as it was with Tarhunnas and Grids. You had a chance at a minor win and a draw 100% now even with a hot patch I dont think a draw is possible.

Again sorry.

here is the "fix" so far.

ORIGINAL: rmonical

This is my recommendation based on what I know now. I think you can start doing this on 1/43. I know you can do it in 44.

Put all of the divisions with new style squads (see my most recent post in slow upgrade thread). at 50% TOE and no refit. Place them where they will take as many casualties as possible. You need new style squads in the active pool.

Take all of the divisions with old style squads out of refit mode. Place one regiment per division in refit mode (I do not know if this has an impact). When a regiment upgrades to the new style squads, recombine it with the other regiments, then the division will start taking new style squads as normal replacements. There needs to be more than enough new style squads in the active pool to allow the swap, so lower TOE units are easier to get the swap, all else being equal.

I still have not tested whether both squad types will participate in combat.

As you upgrade divisions to new style squads, place them in the front line. Also, as the original all new style division get close to 60% TOE, put them back to 100% and in refit mode. You will not get any upgrades that turn, but production will produce a bunch of new style squads for those divisions. After you do that, it will take a couple of weeks after you reduce their TOE again before new style squads appear in the active pool.

In other words the snowball started Jan 43 and I have now a disaster on my hands that never should have happened in the first plase by design.

The problem is its 1944 and SHC is driving west and I dont have time to fix 2by3's screw up on the fly and DV is way more screwed then I am.

I feel really bad for him as he had no idea he was going to get hit by a sht strom of a bug.

I knew going into all my last 6 games something was bugged and figured I get screwed taking one for the team.

Hugh been nice enough to wait so I will wait until 2by3 comes up with a better way around their disaster.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

Yah, I'm kind of bummed about this right now. I had a hell of a game going but it has quickly devolved into a joke. I simply laugh every time I open the save wondering how low my army can sink before A-Game starts driving 5-6 hexes a turn. Luckily I've learned a lot from this game so if we can get these issues fixed I would have a lot of fun in a future showdown.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Disgruntled Veteran

Yah, I'm kind of bummed about this right now. I had a hell of a game going but it has quickly devolved into a joke. I simply laugh every time I open the save wondering how low my army can sink before A-Game starts driving 5-6 hexes a turn. Luckily I've learned a lot from this game so if we can get these issues fixed I would have a lot of fun in a future showdown.

I think we are screwed unless A-Game and Hugh will back up to Jan 43.

This thing is like a cancer infecting the toe conversion and upgrades. It starts in the hand then slowly infects the hole body.

Even games getting to Jan 43 will slowly get screwed up.

basicly we have to stop an wait for a fix, no point in even starting a new game as any conversion could get messed up even early ones looks like.

GHC not only has to play the game but fight this cancer off and then try to have fun.

Again sorry I expected this to be a disaster at some point as I knew something was not right starting in mid 43. You simply got sucker punched then kicked while you were down.

I am playing smokendave as SHC and hes had several game blow up in his fase as our's have and simply thought it was by design or him.

Hes bumming it also as we are about to hit fall 43 and his shit has started sinking(he kicked my ass and deserves a minor win or draw) but as this canser is in his army alrdy and he knows the result we are putting that game on hold also. I would never call a game a win when the cancer killed the GHC and not me. I offered a draw if no fix is put in by 2by3.

I am guessing any 1943+ games are screwed to some degree past July is pushing it as so many units are messed up and a shit ton of armament points wasted as you know you burnt through 700,000

Again the snowball effect something small is HUGE 50 turns latter.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]TURN 147 - APRIL 6, 1944 - SOUTH[/center]

At this point any pretense of holding a line is fiction. The Soviets are advancing 4-6 hexes a turn and any attempt to rescue bypassed divisions leads to many more lost the following turn. The Western side of the map is filled with frozen refitting divisions. I'm just going to start running.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]TURN 147 - APRIL 6, 1944 - EVERYTHING ELSE[/center]

The Center and North have merged. Here we have started retreating 2 hexes a turn minimum in hopes that the army will soak up some of my mass surplus of men. At least we have mud starting to fall. At this point I'm having to force myself to actually try and resist because I'd love to just let the entire army get encircled and eat a bullet, but I do want to make sure A-Game gets a full game in. If Mud season gives me a decent refit I can probably hold out until late Summer 44...

On another note I did start seeing Panzer divisions upgrade their TOE but they are still using 41-43 motor squads. I hope the fix gets put in place for future games. This game has been a lot of fun but I am reluctant to start another with the end game being this way.

German OOB: 2.21 Million
Russian OOB: 7.93 Million

Manpower Reserve: 678k

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Disgruntled Veteran

[center]TURN 147 - APRIL 6, 1944 - EVERYTHING ELSE[/center]

The Center and North have merged. Here we have started retreating 2 hexes a turn minimum in hopes that the army will soak up some of my mass surplus of men. At least we have mud starting to fall. At this point I'm having to force myself to actually try and resist because I'd love to just let the entire army get encircled and eat a bullet, but I do want to make sure A-Game gets a full game in. If Mud season gives me a decent refit I can probably hold out until late Summer 44...

On another note I did start seeing Panzer divisions upgrade their TOE but they are still using 41-43 motor squads. I hope the fix gets put in place for future games. This game has been a lot of fun but I am reluctant to start another with the end game being this way.

German OOB: 2.21 Million
Russian OOB: 7.93 Million

Manpower Reserve: 678k

your army would still be holding the October 43 llines if not for converion bug-WAD depending on how one looks at it.

Your CV's were lowered not because of combat but because of WAD. Most of CV values is based on rifle squads and if squads are not converting CV drops because there are no new replasments for front line units.

Thats why when you withdraw (10+ hexes at railhead and with HQ) units they still get almost no replasments, the system sees no need to build them so doesn't. It builds guns which sucked up your 700k arm pts. Guns add nothing to CV and as we know 75% of loses are caused by retreats. Thats why last yr I thought this was a armament bug, but as 3 amigos clearly pointed out in tech forums its a conversion issue. The rate was tweaked down more as helpless stated in the thread which almost stopped conversions.

SO in your game and the other mid43 + games

1. divisional CV would never have dropped because of no conversions and no rifle squads being built
2. armament pool would not have gone from 700k to 0 as fast.
3. morale/equipment/ land would not have been lost.

Lines would be slowly being pushed west and not simply disappear because of uber slow conversion rates

This issue has a huge snowball effect.

Even if it remains a WAD issue their appear's to be work arounds for players, but have to be started in 11/42 and will be a pain in the butt to get semi right.

Any game past 11/42 even if paths are restored before they were tweaked down is damaged because of WAD it would appear as per tech forums on going debate.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

Yah, that work around needs to be stickied or this issue needs to be fixed. After seeing the results no one can defend this as WAD. My game imploded after my armament stockpile ran out.