Impressions of a Beta Tester

The new Cold War turned hot wargame from On Target Simulations, now expanded with the Player's Edition! Choose the NATO or Soviet forces in one of many scenarios or two linked campaigns. No effort was spared to model modern warfare realistically, including armor, infantry, helicopters, air support, artillery, electronic warfare, chemical and nuclear weapons. An innovative new asynchronous turn order means that OODA loops and various effects on C3 are accurately modeled as never before.

Moderators: WildCatNL, cbelva, IronManBeta, CapnDarwin, IronMikeGolf, Mad Russian

Post Reply
User avatar
cbelva
Posts: 2189
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:11 pm
Location: Nevada USA

Impressions of a Beta Tester

Post by cbelva »

I have been a beta tester for FPC since July and have logged many hours playing the game, so I think that I have a pretty good understanding of how this game plays. Capn Darwin suggested that I add my comments on game play. So I plan on periodically adding in this thread my impressions on the different aspects of playing the game, all the while trying not to violate my NDA [:-].

I played FPG when it came out and enjoyed it, but it didn’t hold my interest for a long time. I really wanted to like it. I was in the military during the 80s and trained to fight this war. I liked many of the concepts of the original, but I didn’t like the lack of infantry, the squares, and the way chemical weapons were handled (I am one of the disgruntled chemical officers Capn Darwin mentioned in another thread). I eventually lost interest in it even though I went back to it from time to time. FPC is not your grandfather’s FPG. It is a totally different game. They have kept the things that worked and added so much more. If I had to describe the gameplay of FPC in one word, I would say "fun". I have really enjoyed playing this game. Even with the bug hunting/squashing and the tweaking and adjusting of the AI, I have had a blast playing. Mad Russian stated in another post that the game is easy to play. It is, and that allows you to concentrate on your tactics which is what a commander should be doing. What makes it easy is that Rob and Capn Darwin did not try to make the program do too much. One of the problems I have had with games of this scale in the past is that they try to do too much bean counting and you end up bogging down in details and/or fighting the program. They have tried to find a healthy balance between realism and abstraction. FPC allows you to be the commander and worry about fighting the battle before you without having to fight the system or the UI. Go ahead and call me a fan boy, because I have become one!

One word of caution, this game is not the “game to end all games.” You will find yourself saying at times, “I wish it would allow me to do this or I wish they would add this.” We all have said that; however, what it does it does very well. And I know that Rob, Capn Darwin, and Mad Russian are very open to ideas and suggestions, so when you get the game don’t keep them to yourselves and we may see some of these things we wish for in future editions.
Charles Belva
On Target Simulations LLC
User avatar
wodin
Posts: 10709
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 3:13 am
Location: England
Contact:

RE: Impressions of a Beta Tester

Post by wodin »

Sounds great..yes sometimes I think we need to be told to lower our expectations with regards to games..I do have a feeling though that with expansions it could well become the modern war game to end all games...it looks to have the magic ingredient..potential.
User avatar
CapnDarwin
Posts: 9254
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:34 pm
Location: Newark, OH
Contact:

RE: Impressions of a Beta Tester

Post by CapnDarwin »

I think Charles deserves to take a bow for dealing with all of us. [&o][&o][&o]

His sharp eye and making test bed scenarios to look at discreet game functions has dug out a number of bugs and his detailed reporting allows us to quickly home in on problem areas and clean them up without wasting additional time. This will be a much better game thanks to his efforts in testing.
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC
User avatar
CapnDarwin
Posts: 9254
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:34 pm
Location: Newark, OH
Contact:

RE: Impressions of a Beta Tester

Post by CapnDarwin »

@ wodin - I do hope people who buy the game enjoy it. We do want it to be a game easy to play, easy to see the information of importance, but yet be difficult to master without applying good tactics and having a bit of luck. The idea of starting in the 80s was to show just how many radical technology changes occurred and how the fights change in tactics and scope over the time period.
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC
User avatar
cbelva
Posts: 2189
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:11 pm
Location: Nevada USA

RE: Impressions of a Beta Tester

Post by cbelva »

One of the more interesting (and initially confusing) addition to the game that affects game play is the variable turn cycles. In other words, there are no set turn lengths in the game. The game is described as WEGO; but, except for the first turn of the game, you will real rarely give orders at the same time as your opponent. When this was first added to the game I was a little cool to it. But as I saw how it effected the game and my role as the commander, I believe it is an now integral part of the game. The question was asked whether it is based on the "command rating" of the commander. The answer to a degree, "yes". As the commander of your forces, you command ability will have an impact on how often you will be able to issue orders. It is not an artificial rating given to a digital commander. You are the commander and it is your rating that is determined by how well your are managing your forces plus the enemies effectiveness at EW. The length of your turn cycle is based on the effects of EW, the number of commands you have been issuing to your units, the overall readiness of your force, the status of your command and control net, etc. Issue too many orders, get your HQs out of command range or get them demoralized or killed and you will have a hard time getting orders to you units timely as your command cycles get longer. It if frustrating to see your opponent issue orders two or three times before you are able to.

You may ask how does this affect the overall play of the game. He who can give orders the quickest has a an advantage over their opponent. Its is called initiative which can be a huge combat modifier. In a tight game, this could be the deciding factor of whether you win or loose.
Charles Belva
On Target Simulations LLC
User avatar
BeirutDude
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:44 am
Location: Jacksonville, FL, USA

RE: Impressions of a Beta Tester

Post by BeirutDude »

@cbelva: I believe the IDF (and other Western Armies) lives and dies by that principle. I can see this variable turn system being a real advantage in Arab-Israeli War scenarios were small IDF forces consistently got the jump on larger Arab Forces through superior command, control and initiative.

Question, Given the historical Soviet/WP advance in echelon to contact and rigged command and control tactics in combat, I would guess/assume the NATO forces would get in more turns vs. a Soviet/WP A/I. Conversely most Western gamers never utilize historical Soviet/WP tactics when playing any wargame (unless forced to by ridged rules. I know I don’t cause I can’t put myself in that Soviet mindset [:D] ). Do you find that when play testing as the WP human you get more actual turns than the WP A/I or does it turn out to be relatively even?

If the question violates the NDA I understand. [:-]
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
User avatar
Richie61
Posts: 584
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:28 am
Location: Massachusetts

RE: Impressions of a Beta Tester

Post by Richie61 »

Nice write up!

Where do I sign up for beta testing? [:)]
To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.

Sun Tzu



User avatar
cbelva
Posts: 2189
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:11 pm
Location: Nevada USA

RE: Impressions of a Beta Tester

Post by cbelva »

Beachinnole,
That is a good question. Unfortunately, I don't have an answer for you. It does appear to me that NATO normally has the advantage over the WP in the varible turns and normally gets more turns. However, that is not always the case. I have had it flipped on me with the Soviets having the advantage. It is normally due to 2 factors. EW and poor play on my part [:@]. As the NATO player, if you don't protect you command and control the Soviets can get the upper hand in the variable turns. Your units taking damage causes the overall readiness of your army to fall and this too affects the turn cycle.
Charles Belva
On Target Simulations LLC
User avatar
CapnDarwin
Posts: 9254
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:34 pm
Location: Newark, OH
Contact:

RE: Impressions of a Beta Tester

Post by CapnDarwin »

..or like Steve found out last night, a Mig-23 flies over your main HQ complex and drops off a few CBUs to say hi. [;)]

Hate it when the stinger teams don't see them coming!!
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC
User avatar
BeirutDude
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:44 am
Location: Jacksonville, FL, USA

RE: Impressions of a Beta Tester

Post by BeirutDude »

..or like Steve found out last night, a Mig-23 flies over your main HQ complex and drops off a few CBUs to say hi.

I hate it when that happens [:D]! Almost as bad as trying to communicate on a PRC-77 after a Grad explosion has left your ears ringing, but I wouldn't know anything about that [:(]. The good news is to this day I still can't hear my wife when there is a lot of ambient noise around and I have a piece of paper saying it isn't a lie [:D].

Thanks for the answers guys, this looks/sounds great.
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!
User avatar
cbelva
Posts: 2189
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:11 pm
Location: Nevada USA

RE: Impressions of a Beta Tester

Post by cbelva »

One more comment on variable turns. I was playing one of the opening scenarios tonight where the Soviets were crossing the border and the Americans were still in their bunks so to speak.[>:] This was simulated by having few American units on the map to include HQs at game start. The Soviets had a huge advantage over the Americans in the turn cycle. They were able to take two to three turns to the American's one. As more American HQs arrived on the battlefield, the American's turn cycle started reversing itself and eventually closed the gap with the Soviet's. This is a good example how the game can simulate the confusion that occurs in a batte especially when one side is not prepared.
Charles Belva
On Target Simulations LLC
User avatar
cbelva
Posts: 2189
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:11 pm
Location: Nevada USA

RE: Impressions of a Beta Tester

Post by cbelva »

Let's talk a little about what I have learned about tactics and FPC. Real world tactics work. I find myself going back to the tactics and lessons I learned while serving in the army during the 1980s. If you play this game like it is WWII, your pixel soldiers will die and will die quickly (as I found out the hard way). Firepower and terrain are key. You have to consider your weapon systems capabilities and the proper way to deploy them. Firepower is everything in this game. Whoever can fire first has a big advantage. If you just line up your units to block the enemy you will find it does not work too well. In WWII games it is key to determine you opponents main advance and then place your units to block and then sludge it out with him. That tactic does not work too well in FPC. I found that defense in depth does. You don't have to physically sit on piece of real estate in order to control it. Standing off and covering the location with fire is usually just as effective (and safer for your pixel soldiers). If you are the NATO player, be prepared to fight greatly outnumbered. Your key to success is your weapon systems and keeping your soldiers alive to fight. By knowing your weapon systems and by proper utilization of the terrain you can take a smaller force and defeat a larger force. Ignore the principles of war and you will find that you won't have troops to command for long.[:-]

Note--The thing I appreciate the most about the maps is that they are easy to read. After playing a few battles you will begin to see how the game sees the maps and the key terrain will start to become obvious to you, and you then will realize that it is the way you would have expected it if you were walking the field. This has greatly increased the immersion of the game to me. Mad Russian has a bad habit and not making your setup and first moves in a game obvious. In other words, you have to think. I have found the best strategy is to study the terrain and identify and then seek to gain the key terrain in the area of operation. When I am not sure what my next move should be, I have found that the terrain rarely leads me wrong.
Charles Belva
On Target Simulations LLC
User avatar
CapnDarwin
Posts: 9254
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:34 pm
Location: Newark, OH
Contact:

RE: Impressions of a Beta Tester

Post by CapnDarwin »

Some very good words of wisdom. Thanks Charles. [&o]
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC
User avatar
JohnOs
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:22 pm
Location: Colorado Springs, CO

RE: Impressions of a Beta Tester

Post by JohnOs »

Not sure if this is the right place for this, can you give a ballpark time frame on when we can start to look for this?

EDIT: Disregard this last transmission, saw the other thread [:)]
Flashpoint Campaigns Contributor
Ron
Posts: 499
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2002 2:46 am

RE: Impressions of a Beta Tester

Post by Ron »

ORIGINAL: cbelva

One of the more interesting (and initially confusing) addition to the game that affects game play is the variable turn cycles. In other words, there are no set turn lengths in the game. The game is described as WEGO; but, except for the first turn of the game, you will real rarely give orders at the same time as your opponent. When this was first added to the game I was a little cool to it. But as I saw how it effected the game and my role as the commander, I believe it is an now integral part of the game. The question was asked whether it is based on the "command rating" of the commander. The answer to a degree, "yes". As the commander of your forces, you command ability will have an impact on how often you will be able to issue orders. It is not an artificial rating given to a digital commander. You are the commander and it is your rating that is determined by how well your are managing your forces plus the enemies effectiveness at EW. The length of your turn cycle is based on the effects of EW, the number of commands you have been issuing to your units, the overall readiness of your force, the status of your command and control net, etc. Issue too many orders, get your HQs out of command range or get them demoralized or killed and you will have a hard time getting orders to you units timely as your command cycles get longer. It if frustrating to see your opponent issue orders two or three times before you are able to.

You may ask how does this affect the overall play of the game. He who can give orders the quickest has a an advantage over their opponent. Its is called initiative which can be a huge combat modifier. In a tight game, this could be the deciding factor of whether you win or loose.


Really looking forward to how the variable turn cycles plays out and hope the AI, being a primarily single player, puts up a decent challenge. Perhaps an AAR versus the AI? It would go a long way to showcasing the game for me.
User avatar
CapnDarwin
Posts: 9254
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:34 pm
Location: Newark, OH
Contact:

RE: Impressions of a Beta Tester

Post by CapnDarwin »

Ron,

Keep your eye on the DAR thread. Mad Russian will be starting a play through with screen and comments toward the end of the month.
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC
Post Reply

Return to “Flashpoint Campaigns Classic”