1943 conversion bug.

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morvael
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by morvael »

If no other fix could be implemented due to lack of time for coding, perhaps besides optimizing the TOE to better fit production available at given moment, the late war squads could get a discount to their price to accomodate for the older squads frozen in the pool?
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: morvael

If no other fix could be implemented due to lack of time for coding, perhaps besides optimizing the TOE to better fit production available at given moment, the late war squads could get a discount to their price to accomodate for the older squads frozen in the pool?

I have very few infantry divisions with up-graded 43-45 squads.

Not a single division in AGA has mech/panzer or infantry divisions (18th,6th and 1st PG) has a up-graded squad in it. They are all 1939 to 1943.

Not sure what that means.

Transit pool has 25,000 and active pool 317,000.
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: rmonical
In Pelton's example, of the 27 divisions with new style rifle squads, how many also have old style squads

Can you confirm that those 27 divisions only have new style squads? The same question for Disgruntled Veteran. Do the various divisions not getting squads only have old style squads?

The divisions have 1939 - 43 or 43-45. I found none with both.

Most are 1939-43 squads in infantry divisions and panzer divisions.
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by rmonical »

I find no examples of a division with both types of squads.

It does not help the games in progress, but I bet this problem could be fixed by adding a second slot in the various division types for the 43 (motorized) rifle squad.

Now - to reproduce this problem in the 44 scenario: confirm the security divisions never get any more rifle squads. I ran a couple of turns with only the security divisions on refit and it is pretty clear they are not going to get any more rifle squads and will gradually rot away. All of the other divisions have new style squads so the problem is not detectable.

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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: Denniss

Please have a look at the items in transfer pool, AFAIR the oversize reduction items (from TOE upgrade with lower overall numbers) will be at least one turn in transfer pool. in bad weather but especially at blizzard, a lot more damaged items are sent back to pool and back to units.

Transit pool has 25,000 and active pool 317,000.

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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: rmonical
I find no examples of a division with both types of squads.

It does not help the games in progress, but I bet this problem could be fixed by adding a second slot in the various division types for the 43 (motorized) rifle squad.

Now - to reproduce this problem in the 44 scenario: confirm the security divisions never get any more rifle squads. I ran a couple of turns with only the security divisions on refit and it is pretty clear they are not going to get any more rifle squads and will gradually rot away. All of the other divisions have new style squads so the problem is not detectable.

So your saying all the divisions not converted to 43-45 rifle squads will simply rot away after 44?

Is that the cause of the major quick crash we are seeing starting in Jan 44?
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by rmonical »

Is that the cause of the major quick crash we are seeing starting in Jan 44?

I think so. I think this must be a recently introduced issue (probably a bug). I do not recall a problem with squad types changing a year ago.
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: rmonical
Is that the cause of the major quick crash we are seeing starting in Jan 44?

I think so. I think this must be a recently introduced issue (probably a bug). I do not recall a problem with squad types changing a year ago.

My guess is there are 3 issues, but the big one being the Jan 44 one.

DV and A-game have alrdy proven that the mech/panzer squads are dead in the water by turning refit off to everything an the mech divisions still get zero replasements.

I see if I can figure out if all the 1939-43 divisions are now getting zero replasments.
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by Denniss »

For a mod I did some long runs in August/September 2012 and noticed this behaviour. I pinged Jim about the Pz and PzG divs not getting their PzG squads updated and he added an upgrade path in one of the newer versions (can't find where but I assume during the roduction review).

I still have the saves of this test, even after some turns with 1.07.06 and all on refit I very rarely see PzG, mot inf, rifle or pioneer squads upgraded/swapped.
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by Disgruntled Veteran »

Just a quick chime in here. I can get motorized rifle squads built but I have to set all infantry to 50 and turn them off refit and mech to 100 with refit on. I ran a test with A-Game and I was able to get 180 motor squads built in my test but everything else went horrible. I fielded about 50k men in that test. All in all I don't know if this swap problem is the problem. I believe if I had 4-5 turns without combat I could rebuild much of my army. The main problem I am seeing is the horrible losses from combat. Perhaps the Blizzard conditions are exacerbating this problem. I'm doing a turn tonight so maybe tomorrow I will have more feedback.
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: Disgruntled Veteran

Just a quick chime in here. I can get motorized rifle squads built but I have to set all infantry to 50 and turn them off refit and mech to 100 with refit on. I ran a test with A-Game and I was able to get 180 motor squads built in my test but everything else went horrible. I fielded about 50k men in that test. All in all I don't know if this swap problem is the problem. I believe if I had 4-5 turns without combat I could rebuild much of my army. The main problem I am seeing is the horrible losses from combat. Perhaps the Blizzard conditions are exacerbating this problem. I'm doing a turn tonight so maybe tomorrow I will have more feedback.

Again is points to a system error I would think, building usless stuff that never gets put into any units. Then refusing to build anything unless you turn all the GHC infantry on 50%, sillyness.

They should be being built as they are needed, you still have 2 units sitting on the edge of map for 5 turns+ do you not?

I have 353 units that need 1939 to 1943 rifle squads and only 284 were built.
I have 26 units that need 1943 to 1945 rifle squads and 289 were build!!

WHT is the AI doing? My 26 divisions are near toe setting and my 353 units are adding 1 or 2% per turn not on line and the ones fighting the toe are dropping.

Did all the upgrades stop in mid 43? and now the system is confused?
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by Peltonx »

Ok I found something.

On this turn 58th Infantry Division up-grades to 44 ToE whatever to hell that is?

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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by rmonical »

It does not help the games in progress, but I bet this problem could be fixed by adding a second slot in the various division types for the 43 (motorized) rifle squad.

Will I tried it with the security divisions in the 44 scenario and that did not work. Bummer. I added the second slot for the 43 rifle squads to the 42 security division TOE and ran a couple of turns. They did not pick up any of the new style rifle squads.

I did notice that the security divisions start the 44 scenario without a single security squad.

I did learn some things. Walking through the image we see:
1. the engine wants to do a 100% conversion. So the three regiments shown each converted to all new style squads.
2. The engine is OK with both types of squads in a single division. See the recombined 391st Security division. So my TOE suggestion is not needed. The issue seems to be big bang conversion.
3. The principle of conservation of squads applies. Squads are never converted, the old squads are swapped out and the new squads are swapped in. Total old style squads on T4 - 2346 + 246 in the pool = 2592 + 50 destroyed = 2642 at start squads.
4. morvael's observation re the MG sections is absolutely on point. Apparently it upgrades easier than rifle squads. So while few of Pelton's divisions have converted rifle squads, almost all have converted to the new MG section. So we have the situation he points out where 8600 M34 MG and 25800 rifles are waiting to be recycled.

Notice that with plenty of armaments and personnel points in the pool, the conversion of security division rifle squad types is excruciatingly slow. I made the settings Easy so the Germans are not stressed, the security divisions are almost all off the line. Admittedly, their leader checks probably fail. However 221st reports to and has been sitting with AGC and has not converted to new style squads. And so far, they have only converted at the regiment level.

In Pelton's and DVs case, they need more new style squads NOW and have the where-withal to build them. Because so many units are still using the old style squads, they will not sit in the pool long.

So maybe it is WAD, but the issue is the slow pace of conversion to new style squads. I'll keep running my test for a few turns to see how rapidly the security divisions convert.



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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by Peltonx »

I checked the Divisions and nothing has up-graded its still 1939 to 1943 squads.

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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by Peltonx »

Another thing bothering me is I only made 560 total rifle squads and GV made 2400 in a single turn.

My army will fall apart even faster then his at present trend, that probably will not even keep pace with atrition rates.
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by TAIL_GUNNER »

maybe it matters, maybe it doesn't...

but in an old mod I made with 1.05.xx, I noticed all the early war rifle squads were set to upgrade to the mid-war squads (includes all rifle, motorized, mech, and engineer)

however in the latest beta, the only squads set for this are Panzergrenadier and Panzer-Pioneer.

Also, only the regular Pioneer and Panzer-Pioneer is set to upgrade from mid-war to late war.
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by Disgruntled Veteran »

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Another thing bothering me is I only made 560 total rifle squads and GV made 2400 in a single turn.

My army will fall apart even faster then his at present trend, that probably will not even keep pace with atrition rates.

Well this won't happen until 44 and it will go from 1500-3000 squads a turn.

Yes I do still have units that still have not withdrawn on the edge of the map. They are waiting on motorized squads that never arrive.
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: rmonical
It does not help the games in progress, but I bet this problem could be fixed by adding a second slot in the various division types for the 43 (motorized) rifle squad.

Will I tried it with the security divisions in the 44 scenario and that did not work. Bummer. I added the second slot for the 43 rifle squads to the 42 security division TOE and ran a couple of turns. They did not pick up any of the new style rifle squads.

So basicly GHC is screwed come 44 because of a coding issue or bug,

1. The system is not converting infantry divisions to 43-45 infantry squads fast enough during 43. The system is still making 1939-43 squads at a slowing pace starting in mid 43, which is why the nampower pool starts growing even with armament pts in the pool all of the 2nd half of 43.

2. By Jan 44 only 25 to 30 divisions are converted to 1943-45 squads, but the system is ramping up 43-45 squad production and shutting down 1939 to 1943 production.
This causes a crash in the German OOB as the system is not building the required squads and a balloning of the manpower pool - dispite the fact the GHC has arm pts in the pool.

3. If there is an armament issue its caused by the system building units that never gets used, 10,000's of wasted armament points as pointed out by more then one person.
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: Disgruntled Veteran

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Another thing bothering me is I only made 560 total rifle squads and GV made 2400 in a single turn.

My army will fall apart even faster then his at present trend, that probably will not even keep pace with atrition rates.

Well this won't happen until 44 and it will go from 1500-3000 squads a turn.

Yes I do still have units that still have not withdrawn on the edge of the map. They are waiting on motorized squads that never arrive.

That turn was Jan 20th 1944, why I am feaking out.

How many divisions do you have that are 43-45 and 39-43?

Check production screen GHC only. The number to right is the divisions using the squads. in my case post #66 355 39-43 and 26 43-45
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by Peltonx »

Just got the next turn back

manpower pool grew by 16,000

OOB dropped by -43,000 wth?

Rifle squads produced increased to 380 for both 43-45 and 39-43

Rifle squads in pools increased by 55.

Again no units were converted to 43-45 rifle squads.

losses were only 35,000.

I am bad at math but something simply doesnt seem to add up.

My OOB is tanking and there is next to no fighting going on.

My OOB has dropped by 250,000 men the last 7 turns 43,000 last turn and my manpower pool has grown by 160,000 in 7 turns, setting at 360,000. I have armaments in the pool, so wth is going on?

The last 30+ turns to turn 130 everything was static. Then in just 7 turns for no reason my OOB is disappearing.

Fighting has been light to average.

In another 7 turns I will have close to 500,000 men in manpower pool and my OOB will be below 3.0 millions.

Why?

It has nothing to do with combat because I am retreating all along the line and fighting and atrition is next to nothing 35k per turn. Unlike DV vs A-game's 130k per turn loses, but yet the very same result?


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