1943 conversion bug.

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Denniss
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by Denniss »

Please have a look at the items in transfer pool, AFAIR the oversize reduction items (from TOE upgrade with lower overall numbers) will be at least one turn in transfer pool. in bad weather but especially at blizzard, a lot more damaged items are sent back to pool and back to units.

T136 screen shows 38 units still on the old mot inf squads with somewhat low pool for the old types. How's the pool for panzer grenadier squads old/new?
What are the german units using the 3/44 cavalry squad(-) in 11/43? We had a fix for this too early use but I don't know how old your game is (may still be affected).
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morvael
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by morvael »

From my "TOE Details" report, it seems there are some minor issues with TOE composition left (unavailable elements assigned to TOE, that sometimes have upgrades and/or alternatives). Also, in previous versions there were problems with making the TOE accept alternative items from the same class if they were not the exact type and/or in it's upgrade path. Those units were just content to stick with rotating items, of which the pools was growing smaller and smaller every turn. I see a lof of German squads have no upgrade paths defined, so they are all alternatives.

But in this case I think it may be the "pay again for almost the same weapons" logic that is sucking the arm pool.
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: morvael

This old set of weapons awaits to be recycled into arm points but it will take year(s) to do it, so late in the game it may actually mean never.

That's why I'm saying any problems with combat or production system that yield ahistorical results must be countered by ahistorical production capabilities, historical accuracy be damned. If other aspects are not following history, then another one cannot stick to it, to the detriment of players.

Bear in mind that these are all my personal opinions based on what I have seen in the game (haven't played much, but with attention to detail) and what I have read on these forums. So I may be wrong.

Your right sadly, Flaviusx saw an issue but could not put his finger on it. I saw something up in blizzard 42 (upgrades) which started crippling my army, but it recovered quickly.

Yes to the players detrement 100's of hr's time will be wasted unless 2by3 hot patchs our games as they did Tarhunnas's and Grids.

Thanks for you input man, sorry if you get hit with a sht storm as is normal for poeple that bring up faults in the game.

I have 4 games on going 3 as GHC and 1 as SHC all in 43+ and all those hrs are simply wasted because of what looks to be a major design flaw. My win as SHC will have nothing to do with skills, but its simply because GHC OOB disappears by the current design.

I guess that as you say the Germans are on vacaction with there rifles in Middle Earth from Jan 44 to Jan 1st 45 heheheeeeeeeee
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Peltonx
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

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morvael
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by morvael »

Soviet army goes through several squad upgrades as well. But as the war goes on, they can accept the ARM cost.

For the swap/upgrade issue I found earlier check here:
fb.asp?m=3221910

It was patched but I'm not sure if it was a direct fix or several fixes "around" the main issue, that were problems on their own right, and helped to alleviate it. See 1.6.22 patch notes (point 5 in New Features and points 11 and 12 in Bug Fixes).
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morvael
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by morvael »

Showing screenshots will not help much, you must do some calculations like I did in the post I mentioned. Only then the trends will be more visible.
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: morvael

Showing screenshots will not help much, you must do some calculations like I did in the post I mentioned. Only then the trends will be more visible.

Ok sounds like fun got nothing esle to do now.

In the other game thats falling apart the system refuses to build mech squads to the point units withdrawing are sitting on the map for 5+ turns waiting on just 3% more replasments(still sitting there). They even tried turning just those units on reift and they are still there no replasements. Looks like the squad upgrades or something is bugged with that game.

The issue looks allot bigger then what your pointing to as even when GHC has enough armament points the manpower pool is ballooning and OOB crashing very quickly. This of course will snowball like everything esle.
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by rmonical »

Note that the overlap period between new (with Panzerfaust) and the old (motorized) rifle squads ends on 12/43. Both are available 1/43-12/43.

In Pelton's example, of the 27 divisions with new style rifle squads, how many also have old style squads. Is there a problem assigning new style squads to divisions with old style squads? Looking at the 44 campaign scenario, everyone (except security is converted). In the 43 campaign scenario, the LW, Mountain and Jager divisions join the security divisions in not being converted to the panzerfaulst squads. All of the regular infantry is converted.

I find no examples of a division with both types of squads.
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morvael
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by morvael »

This just begs for writing a program that would take this data and make calculations and present results. Doing it by hand will be a chore. Unfortunately, I don't have time :(

It would be interesting to do a full scan, not only a class scan as I did in my post (for AA guns). Might be worth finding out how many items of each type gets produced and how much ARMs each of these costed.
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by rmonical »

I find no examples of a division with both types of squads.

It does not help the games in progress, but I bet this problem could be fixed by adding a second slot in the various division types for the 43 (motorized) rifle squad.
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Peltonx
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: morvael

This just begs for writing a program that would take this data and make calculations and present results. Doing it by hand will be a chore. Unfortunately, I don't have time :(

It would be interesting to do a full scan, not only a class scan as I did in my post (for AA guns). Might be worth finding out how many items of each type gets produced and how much ARMs each of these costed.

We really do not have to as all games will crash by late 44, the proof in the end is the burning ashes of the house.

I hope we will not see this design flaw in witw, as this will be my first question I will ask.

I am guessing this flaw will never pass muster in any 1939-1941 test or War in Europe crashing the game long before 44.

I use to think that the logistic system was the biggest problem, but this is more of an issue.

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Peltonx
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: rmonical
I find no examples of a division with both types of squads.

It does not help the games in progress, but I bet this problem could be fixed by adding a second slot in the various division types for the 43 (motorized) rifle squad.

The sad thing is this was the issue with Wolf and the Bear and it was never addresses only hot patched.

I am guessing because it would require a major over haul of the game engine itself.

Fingers crossed this is not part of witw or wite2
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Peltonx
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by Peltonx »

2by3?

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rmonical
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by rmonical »

In Pelton's example, of the 27 divisions with new style rifle squads, how many also have old style squads

Can you confirm that those 27 divisions only have new style squads? The same question for Disgruntled Veteran. Do the various divisions not getting squads only have old style squads?
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RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before.

Post by Denniss »

8600 MG 34 machine guns squads sit in your pool unused - I believe Jim should remove the upgrade path from MG 34 type to MG 42 type, both co-existed and AFAIR both were produced until the end (although late-war MG 34 production was more for tanks than for infantry). If a units gets MG 42 via TOE upgrade it should receive them but otherwise they should stay at MG 34. This is another armament sink - 34k wasted in your case.

Screens show the usual problems - no use of the Sturmpanzer IV (Brummbar), almost no usage of the StuH 42, upgrade problems for Panzergrenadier squads (should be fixed now with upgrade path set in generic data).
I assume the massive amounts of support and 50mm mortars are from oversize reduction in infantry divs.
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