German TOE (OB) ERRATA

[Update]

With the new Beta’s coming lately fast (thanks!), I was wondering if you plan to fix the TOE errors also as you did with the aircraft.
This first posting is meant for general opening and the examples etc are general in nature.

Good example is German infantry pionier units (engineer). The game TOE says:
6/41 Engineer Battalion
36 Engineer + support

And That’s All Folks as my kids favorite programs end! [:'(]

In reality (= German KSTN tables) the story is different.

First: -41 battalion is only 27 combat squads and 18 flammenwerfer (flamethrowers), so even these are not distributed one per squad.
Second: Every year, starting 1942, the battalion gets more firepower so that by mid-43 the battalion has: 27xsquad, 20xFT, 9xATR (modified for rifle-grenade), 6xHMG and 6x81 mortar. In addition, if it is motorized variety there is 2 LMG’s per squad instead 1.

The list of needed different little fixes is quite long, like missing AT and AA elements in Nebelwerfer regiments along with missing NbW 35 and NbW 40 ground elements.

There are also other issues, for example:
Has anybody else taken the exact combat unit breakdown of 1943 Panzer Division (KstN 24.9.43)? Even though you do some creative editing (as in: recon infantry type units divide by 2 and added to Motorized and Pzgr totals) you cannot fit the COMBAT equipment to available 32 (- 1xsupport) slots.
Anyway, just wondering if there is possibility of getting all these kind of little changes (OK, the slot question is not exactly a little!) added to future updates? Especially since there is a tendency to copy- paste the existing TOE from one game to another copying the errors (WitW anyone?)

[Von Weber]

You may try fix that with editor and even create your own mod

[TAIL_GUNNER]

I share your passion in this aspect, and tried to craft a mod over a year ago that gave every Panzer-Division it's own unique TOE.

But, frequent patch updates made this a pain to keep updated...even with import and export functions.

RE: slot size....I once asked Helpless if it was possible to increase..he responded with a polite "NO"..
However, he did give me a grand idea on splitting the division and making the sub-part into an attached support unit...thusly doubling the number of slots.

might have to get back into this....I'm getting the itch again.

[Update]

Von Weber: Been doing that (fixing with editor) quite a few times and as Tail Gunner said, patches wipe everything out ! That's why I try to get official interest raised for patch fix.
Also, the coming WiTW etc. will all also have the same errors so it would be easiest to fix official.

Tail Gunner: Thought about attached support fix too, would A.I. keep those with divisions or is there way to make attached support permanent?

[TAIL_GUNNER]

Tail Gunner: Thought about attached support fix too, would A.I. keep those with divisions or is there way to make attached support permanent?

not sure if the AI would keep support units attached, but my gut says YES...an easy test would be to run a couple of dozen turns as the Soviets against German AI and then see if the sIG33 Kompanies were still attached to their respective Panzer-Divisions..

no way to make them permanent...

[jaw]

Exact allocation of weapons will always be a problem because of the method of presenting them as components of a squad. In addition weapons that are part of headquarters at any level are generally ignored since these men are factored into the "support squads". You also touched on another problem, the TOE distortions in late war mechanized units cause by the slot limitation. In these cases weapons of similar type were combined together (e.g. towed and self-propelled flak) or simply ignored entirely.

If you want to actually see any "official" TOE changes, I would need to have them presented in "game terms" (i.e. 43 Pioneer Battalion consisting of 27 Pioneer Squads, 9 ATR, etc.) with information source cited or link to online source. Even at that, there's no guarantee the change would get implemented as I would have to run it pass the development team.

Rather than posting stuff here, which I rarely have time to read, just email me directly at jawirth@comcast.net.

Jim Wirth

[Update]

Thanks!

I try to find the time to get changes written as word files (a whole lot of handwritten notes now) and e-mail them.
At least some of them are simple changes to excisting structures.
FYI, the sources are in most cases the original (microfilmed) German KstN tables that have survived.