European Version of WiTP
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
RE: European Version of WiTP
Oh, I should think EVERYBODY has seen that...
We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.
- HansBolter
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RE: European Version of WiTP
ORIGINAL: tigercub
I not going to claim its the bees knees Hans but Hearts of Iron 3 with The finest Hour mod is a very good MP grand strategic much better than when it first came out!
Tigercub
Played HOI 1 and 2 extensively, but never tried 3.
The biggest problem I had with HOI was instantaneous loading of troops on ships.
In a real time (continuous play) game you could load an entire invasion convoy in 1 minute (or whatever the shortest time increment was as it was too long ago that I played it to be able to remember) and it shipped out one minute (time increment) later.
Otherwise it was an enjoyable game, especially the research aspect.
Hans
RE: European Version of WiTP
Dali has been working on a Euro mod found in the mod section. Seems the German boys are hard at work on the issue...which will be too bad for allied armor.
tm.asp?m=2989233
tm.asp?m=2989233
RE: European Version of WiTP
its vastly better now in many ways!
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- Canoerebel
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RE: European Version of WiTP
As far as I know, Global War 2000 (a poorly named combination of two great Avalon Hill war games, Advanced Third Reich and Empire of the Rising sun) is far and away the greatest grand strategic WWII game covering all theaters. Advanced Third Reich was a beloved and matchless game of the European Theater. ERS wasn't quite as well received, but I played it and enjoyed it very much. If somebody created a computer version of Global War 2000 (but change the name for goodness sakes!), I'd play it in a heartbeat. That's the only thing I can imagine that might give AE a run for the money. (World in Flames - or whatever it's called - not a chance.) [align=right]
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- Jorge_Stanbury
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RE: European Version of WiTP
The scale of a game covering the entire European theatre (including N Africa) should be daunting... unless it is done with a lot of abstraction (like HOI series)
RE: European Version of WiTP
I think most people find AE daunting. I think we're talking about another game for the masochist gamers.
Bill
Bill
WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer
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RE: European Version of WiTP
ORIGINAL: wdolson
ORIGINAL: m10bob
I would also like to see the European theatre portrayed at this scale, but especially when including the African campaign it would be on a vastly smaller, less involved scale of activity until after D Day. I would still play it, but WITP-AE is full, rich, and involved from Pearl Harbor on...........
An AE scale game that focuses primarily on Western Europe would have to have very robust modeling of the strategic bombing campaign. Without it, the game has frenetic activity in 1940 followed by four years of very little as the Americans build up starting in 1942.
A complete game that covers from central Russia to Iceland and North Africa to the Arctic Circle would have something going on for most of the war, though the period of agony for the Allies would last longer. The North Africa campaign dragged on for around 2 years before El Alamein changed the balance in the Allies favor. The war in Russia turned pretty much permanently after Stalingrad, but they won a major fight during the first winter with the Battle of Moscow.
You could do an interesting triphibious game with the u-boat campaign modeled as well as the strategic air campaign and land war modeled. I think I'd want to start over with a new game engine though. I think the only way that's going to happen is paying a handful of programmers to do it. I have too many irons in the fire to do anything more than dream about it.
Bill
Agreed, you couldn't use WitPAE engine it's model of land combat is not very good and there is no proper command structure throughout the game. These two thing are the only drawback about AE and considering the European war was, and don't shoot me, predominently a land war critically important.
- HansBolter
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RE: European Version of WiTP
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
As far as I know, Global War 2000 (a poorly named combination of two great Avalon Hill war games, Advanced Third Reich and Empire of the Rising sun) is far and away the greatest grand strategic WWII game covering all theaters. Advanced Third Reich was a beloved and matchless game of the European Theater. ERS wasn't quite as well received, but I played it and enjoyed it very much. If somebody created a computer version of Global War 2000 (but change the name for goodness sakes!), I'd play it in a heartbeat. That's the only thing I can imagine that might give AE a run for the money. (World in Flames - or whatever it's called - not a chance.) [align=right]
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Third Reich was the "go to ' game for me and my local group of wargame buddies for well over 15 years. We played all editions and eventually participated in the design of ATR. Mine is the last name in the design credits under playtesters.
ETO (European Theater of Operations and PTO (Pacific Theater of Operations) were also fine games that received a large amount of playing time with my group.
Hans
- HansBolter
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RE: European Version of WiTP
ORIGINAL: wdolson
I think most people find AE daunting. I think we're talking about another game for the masochist gamers.
Bill
AKA UltraGrognards [:D]
Posession of all but one of the Europa series games qualifies me if nothing else.
The combination of the Fire in the East and Scortched Earth maps took up most of a one car garage on a custom built plywood table.
It's sometimes hard to fathom just how many tens of thousands of cardboard counters I corner clipped. I shudder to think how many I clipped with an xacto knife before some one clued me in to the preferred technique of using nail clippers.
Hans
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RE: European Version of WiTP
Aside from WITE, I've found Decisive Campaigns to be a fairly detailed simulation, albeit on a different scale. Still, Case Yellow on 1-day turns or Case Blue on 2-day turns (and covering a whole year!) at the Regimental level is plenty of counters to be pushing around.
Some TOAW scenarios are also fairly large and detailed, such as Fire in the East or Directive 21.
Otherwise, we'll have to wait for someone to make a computer version of The Campaign for North Africa.
The rates go from pre-war generic Transports (what WITP would call AKs) to war-time generic Transports (APs) and finally LSTs that unload the fastest.
Some TOAW scenarios are also fairly large and detailed, such as Fire in the East or Directive 21.
Otherwise, we'll have to wait for someone to make a computer version of The Campaign for North Africa.
HOI 3 has gotten somewhat better at this: The loading of troops is still pretty much instant, but the unloading of troops is now rate-capped depending on the kind of transport, with combat efficiency suffering accordingly while troops are still on the boats.ORIGINAL: HansBolter
Played HOI 1 and 2 extensively, but never tried 3.
The biggest problem I had with HOI was instantaneous loading of troops on ships.
In a real time (continuous play) game you could load an entire invasion convoy in 1 minute (or whatever the shortest time increment was as it was too long ago that I played it to be able to remember) and it shipped out one minute (time increment) later.
Otherwise it was an enjoyable game, especially the research aspect.
The rates go from pre-war generic Transports (what WITP would call AKs) to war-time generic Transports (APs) and finally LSTs that unload the fastest.
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RE: European Version of WiTP
NAIL CLIPPERS!!! <Major facepalm> I never heard of that one. Dang. I used my pocket knife, honed to a razor edge. I got so good at sharpening knives that my dad always grabbed my filet knife when we were fileting fish. The time I could've saved......ORIGINAL: HansBolter
ORIGINAL: wdolson
I think most people find AE daunting. I think we're talking about another game for the masochist gamers.
Bill
AKA UltraGrognards [:D]
Posession of all but one of the Europa series games qualifies me if nothing else.
The combination of the Fire in the East and Scortched Earth maps took up most of a one car garage on a custom built plywood table.
It's sometimes hard to fathom just how many tens of thousands of cardboard counters I corner clipped. I shudder to think how many I clipped with an xacto knife before some one clued me in to the preferred technique of using nail clippers.
RE: European Version of WiTP
Memories... memories... over 30 years have passed since my first AH game purchase. Names like SPI, VG, AH, The Gamers, MMP, and many others bring a smile to my lips. And yes, nail clippers! The bigger ones were better because they would last for more counters before they needed replacing. 3R & ATR were good games, VERY good games. But my love was with War in the Pacific. Maybe that is the reason I like AE so much. That monster (1E) was hardly playable, but I enjoyed it so much...
Man, I suddenly feel old :/
Man, I suddenly feel old :/
Tenno Heika Banzai!
RE: European Version of WiTP
ORIGINAL: Kitakami
Memories... memories... over 30 years have passed since my first AH game purchase. Names like SPI, VG, AH, The Gamers, MMP, and many others bring a smile to my lips. And yes, nail clippers! The bigger ones were better because they would last for more counters before they needed replacing. 3R & ATR were good games, VERY good games. But my love was with War in the Pacific. Maybe that is the reason I like AE so much. That monster (1E) was hardly playable, but I enjoyed it so much...
Man, I suddenly feel old :/
You are a young'un, and YOU feel old. My first game was D-Day (the original) which I got 50 years ago (almost!)
Now, all I play is either WitP:AE or HPS Normandy '44, or Bulge...(and those last two sporadically at best!) All time favorite board game was WSIM!
"Action springs not from thought, but from a readiness for responsibility.” ― Dietrich Bonhoeffer
RE: European Version of WiTP
I appear to be the dense kid in the class. I too cut my teeth on board games. I had quite a few AH titles plus a few others. I never trimmed counters though. What is the purpose in trimming the corners of the counters? I never heard of that until this thread.
The most laborious thing I ever did was put hole reinforcing things on all the holes in my ASL manual. I had to split the manual into two notebooks at that point because the pages were now twice as thick at the rings and the whole thing wouldn't fit in the original binder. That was tedious.
Bill
The most laborious thing I ever did was put hole reinforcing things on all the holes in my ASL manual. I had to split the manual into two notebooks at that point because the pages were now twice as thick at the rings and the whole thing wouldn't fit in the original binder. That was tedious.
Bill
WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer
RE: European Version of WiTP
ORIGINAL: wdolson
I appear to be the dense kid in the class. I too cut my teeth on board games. I had quite a few AH titles plus a few others. I never trimmed counters though. What is the purpose in trimming the corners of the counters? I never heard of that until this thread.
The most laborious thing I ever did was put hole reinforcing things on all the holes in my ASL manual. I had to split the manual into two notebooks at that point because the pages were now twice as thick at the rings and the whole thing wouldn't fit in the original binder. That was tedious.
Bill
I did the reinforcing stickers on the 3-hole punched sheets for my Star Fleet Battles rulebooks back in college, I think at one point I had 4 binders - Rules, 2 sets of SSDs (in document protectors w/grease pencils for marking damage) and one with all my Federation and Empire stuff. The trees cut down in the pursuit of that game...
Just when I get the hang of a game, I buy two more...
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RE: European Version of WiTP
ORIGINAL: wdolson
I appear to be the dense kid in the class. I too cut my teeth on board games. I had quite a few AH titles plus a few others. I never trimmed counters though. What is the purpose in trimming the corners of the counters? I never heard of that until this thread.
The most laborious thing I ever did was put hole reinforcing things on all the holes in my ASL manual. I had to split the manual into two notebooks at that point because the pages were now twice as thick at the rings and the whole thing wouldn't fit in the original binder. That was tedious.
Bill
There stack better in play or in the box. All those little corner bits where they attached in the sheet stick out if you don't.
RE: European Version of WiTP
ORIGINAL: wdolson
I think most people find AE daunting. I think we're talking about another game for the masochist gamers.
Bill
Yes, good point Bill. I have been playing one wonderful campaign of AE ever since the game came out with my Polish friend Viberpol. We are talking 1200 turns and about three and a half years of real time. It has been a grand ride but I don't know if I am up to doing it again either with AE or any other monster.
To put it in perspective. I owned a closet full of monster board games but never got past a few months of play in any of them in over 30 years of gaming. The computer and this great game allowed me to play my life long dream of wading into and completing a monster game. The icing on the cake is that it was my favorite theater and time frame as well.
But do I want to do it again?...I am not so sure. Just like Davy Johnson of the Washington Nationals said, perhaps it is time to spend a little time with my family.[;)]
BTW, I still play a game or two of ASL...But remain deeply suspicious of those players who cut all the corners off of a billion cardboard counters...[:D] Went to ASL Winter Offensive this winter and both my friends Ken and Jeff were using $40 dollar sets of "balanced dice." Man did I have fun giving them sh*t about that...
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Sigismund of Luxemburg
Sigismund of Luxemburg
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RE: European Version of WiTP
If $40 dice would've kept me from missing with all 4 of my overloaded Photons at range 2, I would've paid it and taken any sh*t anyone wanted to give me![:D]ORIGINAL: crsutton
ORIGINAL: wdolson
I think most people find AE daunting. I think we're talking about another game for the masochist gamers.
Bill
Yes, good point Bill. I have been playing one wonderful campaign of AE ever since the game came out with my Polish friend Viberpol. We are talking 1200 turns and about three and a half years of real time. It has been a grand ride but I don't know if I am up to doing it again either with AE or any other monster.
To put it in perspective. I owned a closet full of monster board games but never got past a few months of play in any of them in over 30 years of gaming. The computer and this great game allowed me to play my life long dream of wading into and completing a monster game. The icing on the cake is that it was my favorite theater and time frame as well.
But do I want to do it again?...I am not so sure. Just like Davy Johnson of the Washington Nationals said, perhaps it is time to spend a little time with my family.[;)]
BTW, I still play a game or two of ASL...But remain deeply suspicious of those players who cut all the corners off of a billion cardboard counters...[:D] Went to ASL Winter Offensive this winter and both my friends Ken and Jeff were using $40 dollar sets of "balanced dice." Man did I have fun giving them sh*t about that...
- Jorge_Stanbury
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RE: European Version of WiTP
sorry for the brief hijack; I had read somewhere in this forum about a space game that is close in complexity to AE; what is the name of it?