37 mm AT Gun hits 1 - WTF ???

[JSG]

Requesting explanation for THIS

[joey]

FOW?

[HistoryGuy]

I would vote for FOW....never seen that myself and I have seen US PT boats sink Japanese CVs.............

[JSG]

What is FOW?

[jmalter]

Fog of War, the great ughknown. happens a lot, such as when your Search-planes find a TF of Tankers that later turn out to be CVs (or vice versa).

[jmalter]

looks like one of the 66th Corps' ATguns ate a bomb & the result got misappropriated to a section of the Combat Report that's usually reserved for Base facility or industry hits. Normally, you'd see a line:
Guns: N destroyed, N disabled as part of the Allied Ground losses table.

Check the 66th Corps TO&E, is an ATG missing or disabled?

[JSG]

Well, since I already showed that pic:

Any guesses why bombing this concentration of forces at Chungking (fortification 6) yields only so few damage, while a mere 100 Ki-21 IIa bombing about half as many troops at Loyang regularly killed 700-1000 (and some of those squadrons were involved in the Chungking bombing)?
Both targets are within "normal" range, and all bombers were set to the limit of "normal" range.
Altitudes were equal - I attempted 6k and 10k ft on both targets each.

I could easily win the continental campaign soon if I only learned how to kill 1k in Chungking per day. 250-350 kills/day is simply not quick enough, despite knocked out production and blockade.

[crsutton]

Well, many things affect bombing results. Detection level, weather, fortifications, terrain, leadership, and luck to name a few. So, it is hard to say why without a little more information. Of all of the above, detection level is probably the most important. Keep searching and keep the DL high and you will get the best results.

[JSG]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Well, many things affect bombing results. Detection level, weather, fortifications, terrain, leadership, and luck to name a few. So, it is hard to say why without a little more information. Of all of the above, detection level is probably the most important. Keep searching and keep the DL high and you will get the best results.

Actually, detection level should be maxed after weeks of photo recce and with a dozen divisions plus dozens of other IJA units in Chungking itself.
Weather does not explain a huge difference in results for weeks, nor would luck.
I doubt that leadership (Chiang K.C. etc) can ward off so many bombs.
The terrain is no doubt different, but I remember bombing of Changsha as much more efficient.
Fortification is probably 5 vs. 3 or so.

[jmalter]

high forts in the target hex reduce your bombers' effectiveness. Chungking prob'ly has better forts & terrain than Loyang did, & higher auto-supply as well. you'll have to bring many more bombers to Chung, don't bother if they can't carry 250kg bombs. One tactic is, bomb the airfield continuously, the defending engrs are forced to repair AF damage before they can build their forts.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: JSG

Actually, detection level should be maxed after weeks of photo recce and with a dozen divisions plus dozens of other IJA units in Chungking itself.

"Should" is a risky word. DL is displayed. It is either 10 or it is not maxxed out and you need to increase the recon efforts. I never assume what the DL is, I check it.

[Cap Mandrake]

Anyone who hits a moving aircraft with a 37mm AT gun is going to want to brag about it.

[JSG]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: JSG

Actually, detection level should be maxed after weeks of photo recce and with a dozen divisions plus dozens of other IJA units in Chungking itself.

"Should" is a risky word. DL is displayed. It is either 10 or it is not maxxed out and you need to increase the recon efforts. I never assume what the DL is, I check it.

It's 9/14 and doesn't change, despite divisions in the hex and four RC units making photos of it.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: JSG

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: JSG

Actually, detection level should be maxed after weeks of photo recce and with a dozen divisions plus dozens of other IJA units in Chungking itself.

"Should" is a risky word. DL is displayed. It is either 10 or it is not maxxed out and you need to increase the recon efforts. I never assume what the DL is, I check it.

It's 9/14 and doesn't change, despite divisions in the hex and four RC units making photos of it.

"Yes, there are DLs getting above the stated maximum value.

The max DL gets updated in several aspects of the game, but there is no check against "going above 10" in AE (or surprisingly in stock).
I suspect in AE, we used DL more often which impacted the max DL.

I have already built-in checks for the next build to correct this. Though the max DL can go a few points above 10 in some cases, it will always come back into the defined levels as the turn progresses. These cases are usually with high attack/search against TFs.

The max DL is used in a few places to influence search, but the normal DL is used in the majority of instances for attacks.


< Message edited by michaelm -- 5/14/2010 11:28:50 PM > "

Check upgrade notes for any further changes to the code on DL.

Edit: Let me add me vote to the side saying that differences in Fort levels are the main reason you see such different results in base bombing. A Forts of 6 is huge protection versus, say, a 2.

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Anyone who hits a moving aircraft with a 37mm AT gun is going to want to brag about it.

The British hit some Ju-52s during the invasion of Crete with 25 pounders. The guns were up in the hills above the airfields and they were able to fire down on the Ju-52s as they flew past. The Ju-52s were flying very slow and it was a unique situation.

I think in this case the AT gun was hit by one of the bombers, but it got reported on the wrong line for some reason.

Bill

[Chickenboy]

Just curious, JSG, but are you playing some sort of mod? The listing of Japanese aircraft damaged (i.e.," Ki-21-Ic x48; Ki-21-IIa x194; Ki-49-IIa x20") is not what I would expect from stock, in that your listing contains no "Lilly" or "Sonia" or other codename descriptor.

Don't know if this has something to do with your unusual / odd 37mm AT gun hit, but just a thought.

[JeffroK]

ORIGINAL: wdolson

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Anyone who hits a moving aircraft with a 37mm AT gun is going to want to brag about it.

The British hit some Ju-52s during the invasion of Crete with 25 pounders. The guns were up in the hills above the airfields and they were able to fire down on the Ju-52s as they flew past. The Ju-52s were flying very slow and it was a unique situation.

I think in this case the AT gun was hit by one of the bombers, but it got reported on the wrong line for some reason.

Bill

It would be interesting to more infor about the succes of the 25pdrs, given that all were left behind on Greece.
I have seen a website with a bit of info but far from anything detailed.
(Of course any aircraft could be hit "while landing" )

[wdolson]

It's possible I misremembered something. I recall reading about the British using field artillery on the Ju-52s from the hills. They probably only scored a couple of hits at best.

Bill

[DivePac88]

It was New Zealanders Bill... On maleme airfield in Crete, after the Germans had pushed us off the field and were reinforcing.

[JeffroK]

Both NZ & OZ Official Histories state that there were no 25pdrs on Crete, all had been lost in Greece.

While most of the Gunners were armed as Infantry, some of the NZ Field Rgts(including that covering Maleme airfield) were equipped with French or Italian 75mm and did conduct direct fire on the the airfield.

No doubt that many Ju52's were destroyed while on the ground or even in the last stages of landing, I seriously doubt any were shot down in the air although the golden BB effect could have intervened.