MP-Case BLUE WAY UNBALANCED

[AP514]

After playing the AI....I figured there was no real way to give a Human Opponent a game as the Russians but I thought I would give it a go...

CASE BLUE

Well, I just had my butt kicked in 2 turns by a GERMAN player.....he had netted(pocketed) over 145K in troops and that was the first 2 turns. No way to even put up a defense with that amount of losses. We were even playing the No cutting off troops using the North edge of the board. If we had not been using that house rule he would have pocketed another 50K-80K at least


Just confirms that I wasted my money on another Matrix game that is way out of balance for MP. To bad...



AP514

[heyhellowhatsnew]

That's usually the tactic in case blue, doesn't russia become a powerhouse towards late in the game? you should retreat your troops so they don't pocket it. I don't know. Maybe the player was a vet? This is a friendly community i'm sure people will come up with ways to help you out

[Isokron]

While I agree that the caseblue scenario favours the germans I dont think its that totally unbalanced counting in the Soviets huge later reinforcements, you are not supposed to be able to defend at the start. We can do a new game with me as the soviets instead if you wish.

The Trappenjagd scenario is probably better balanced although favouring the soviets somewhat imho.

[Anonymous]

[Deleted by Admins]

[Bonners]

It is a real shame that you have had a bad experience of the game, but I wouldnt write the game off after one PBEM. Without wanting to unduly embarrass him I would say that Isokron is one of the most experienced and clever players of Case Blue. Maybe you could take something else out of the game with him rather than writing it off completely? I played two games against Isokron and got severely walloped in both, but I learnt at lot and he gave me a lot of tips that I've tried to take forward in other games.

I'm currently playing Olivier at Case Blue as Germans and I think it is fair to say that the game could end up going the distance and the eventual winner is in the balance. I learnt from Isokron and had a good couple of first turns and wiped out or pocketed about 100k of Russian troops. Yet Olivier is still very much in the game two months later and the balance of power keeps swinging back and forth. So those catastrophic losses can be dealt with in the long term. We didnt even have a house rule for the Soviet aircraft, so I was able to wipe a large number out early on, yet he is now in the ascendancy in the air war.

I think it is fair to say that Olivier is a better player than me, but he is not too experienced as the Soviet side in the Case Blue scenario which has hopefully made it an even game. The point being that maybe it is possible for the game to carry on long term?

One other thing we have done is made a house rule that the German will not carry on the offensive in the north after Voronezh. I think that has been fairly vital as without it the Russian player cannot shore up his northern flank and it is very difficult to defend against. Maybe that is something you could consider for future games?

I hope the one experience doesnt put you off and you feel like you can have another go at the game, although I fully appreciate in can be frustrating when your Soviet forces get wiped off the map early on.

[Redmarkus5]

I did exactly that (OP) to my Soviet MP opponent and then I raced east. However, by the time I got anywhere near Stalingrad, my supplies were a mess and the enemy was cutting my spearheads off left right and centre. Don't give up after two turns - it's tougher for the Axis than you think and they have a long way to go...

[olivier34]

Absolutly. Follow Bonners AAR. I have suffer during the summer but things will change, my red baby is growing up and will be a giant when winter comes [:D]
The only thing that need to be fix is the oil problem that the axis should encounter at some point (like in history, right ?).

[Bonners]

ORIGINAL: olivier34

.....my red baby is growing up and will be a giant when winter comes [:D]

....and the bigger they are the harder they fall[;)]

[jonny211]

Hiya AP514,

I feel your pain as the Russians, particularly against Mr. Isokron who is one of the better players... I have heard that when Zhukhov went to bed he asked the majors to check in the wardrobe and under the bed just in case Isokron was hiding there.

In any case I think that the Case Blue scenario is still unbalanced for PBEM, the Germans can of course cut off and destroy a huge chunk at the beginning but the reinforcements still don't come fast enough for the Russians and if the dismissal rule is being used then the Russian player loses even faster.

If the Germans had less divisions perhaps the it may be a bit more balanced but as it is Rostov is only hard part and once the Germans are into the Caucasus it's game over for any Russian divisions in the south. In the north the Germans can press on past Voronezh and then once Saratov is taken (and that's not hard) then it's game over for any Russians west of the Wolga.

Just my tuppence.

Jon

[edit] As an afterthought does the game have any way to recognize if a town has been taken or not.. say if Usman, Dobrinka etc in the north fall under German control another Russian infantry division arrives at Saratov.

[Isokron]

Don't say stuff like that or I might never find an opponent again, who would risk playing against someone that could lay in ambush under your bed?

[Uxbridge]

Fancy a game Isokron, with you as the Germans?

Nay, only kidding. [:)]

[Keunert]

you really stopped after two turns?

[Toby42]

ORIGINAL: Keunert

you really stopped after two turns?

Yea, his story doesn't make sense???

[CarnageINC]

A rage quiter! [X(] NICE! You don't see these very often [:'(]

[Keunert]

early birds catch the rage

[parusski]

ORIGINAL: Keunert

you really stopped after two turns?

I am on my millionth turn. What does that make me??[:D]

[Toby42]

ORIGINAL: parusski

ORIGINAL: Keunert

you really stopped after two turns?

I am on my millionth turn. What does that make me??[:D]

But are you winning, or losing ???

[LiquidSky]

There is a fairly steep difficulty between playing an AI and playing a human. Even if you think you have got the game beat, playing against the AI, there will be a rude shock the first time you play PBEM.

The best way to look at it, is those enemy pieces will move in a way that will screw you up the most. Always. If you think you are about to encircle them, they will escape. If you leave weak flanks, they will get attacked. If you try and stand up against the enemies strength, you will get blown over.

And don't throw your mechanized forces too far ahead, or they will be attacked.

And get worried if the front seems too quiet. Humans are smart enough to (try) hide their strength

[AP514]

It is not Rage Quit..........On a side note I never recieved the turn back from my Opponent....so no I Did not RAGE QUIT...


Im state'n the fact that the game is unbalanced in MPlayer......(Maybe the German starts out with too many Points to use the Force march and Aattack cards together)....

In history the reason the germans did not win was because the russians ran away faster than the germans could move...this is why not alot of encirclements happened durimg this campaign.

in 2 turns the German has captured over 1/3 of the enemy Inf....200K out of 500K..and it is not that I had not or could have run but did not. He had them encircled on the First turn....they could not run fast enough after that.

Maybe he can post a screen shot of his turn before this next move starts...and you will see...


AP514

On the Comments .....as in most of your Post I just read them..I will not make a comment on them.

[Isokron]

Well you stated both in game chat and here that you had given up the game so I assumed it was over. But I will send you a turn tonight then. It will probably be quite rough for you though since you only seemed to have moved about half your stuff on turn two so there will be a lot of extra encirclements on turn 3.