Restricted Units

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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jcax101
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Restricted Units

Post by jcax101 »

Hi,

Long time since I have been in the action. Bought AE a year ago and still studying. Did a lot of WitP and understand AE is different (and better). I looked through some threads about restricted units but couldn't find what I was looking for.

I know there have been issues with the wholesale transfer of IJA units from Kwantung and China, but I am curious if some units can be transferred at all. In scenario 1 and 2 it seems like the big divisions can only transfer to another command that falls under the umbrella of the China Army or Kwantung Army, thereby staying restricted and not being able to transfer off the continent. In other words even if I have enough PP to change the command of a big division I can't change its HQ to Southern Army. I don't want to walk these units into Burma but not sure what the alternatives are.

Any input or background would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Scott
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joey
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RE: Restricted Units

Post by joey »

To be honest, I do not transfer them. I simply move them to China. They work fine.
The issue you need to worry about it not to fall below the level for Russian intervention. Never go below that number. I leave plenty of margin when moving units to China.
jcax101
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RE: Restricted Units

Post by jcax101 »

Yes have to keep the 8k assault value, and no worries against the AI, but I was looking towards a PBEM with house rules that would accept me moving by paying PP. I just don't see how I can transfer out the big divisions. The AA and ENG no problem, and that helps but will eventually need some of the heavies.
Alfred
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RE: Restricted Units

Post by Alfred »

1. If the HQ named on the LCU screen is in white, you cannot change that unit to another HQ. If instead it is in yellow you can change the attachment to another HQ.

2. There is a discount PP cost if changing to another HQ within the same line of command. Divisions cost a lot of PPs so without the discount you just may not have saved up enough PPs.

Alfred
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Capt Hornblower
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RE: Restricted Units

Post by Capt Hornblower »

ORIGINAL: jcax101

...I was looking towards a PBEM with house rules that would accept me moving by paying PP...

Now, why would any sane AFB agree to this?
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PaxMondo
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RE: Restricted Units

Post by PaxMondo »

Div's cost ~1500 PP each (roughly one months' worth).  So if you aren't seeing more choices, you haven't saved enough PP's.
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Chris21wen
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RE: Restricted Units

Post by Chris21wen »

ORIGINAL: Capt Hornblower
ORIGINAL: jcax101

...I was looking towards a PBEM with house rules that would accept me moving by paying PP...

Now, why would any sane AFB agree to this?

Why not? If anybody is prepared to pay the PPs for leaving the area of command it's up to them. Now before someone says it wasn't done historically it's a game plus, it is highly unlikely that the strategic situation will be identical to the historical one. Who is to say what the Japanese/Allies would have done if the historically situation was the same as in the game.
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crsutton
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RE: Restricted Units

Post by crsutton »

This is a common house rule for Pbemial. All Manchurian units moved into China must be paid for in PPs. Pretty fair.
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Chris21wen
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RE: Restricted Units

Post by Chris21wen »

ORIGINAL: crsutton

This is a common house rule for Pbemial. All Manchurian units moved into China must be paid for in PPs. Pretty fair.

I thought that's what I said. I was replying to a comment that appeared to not want to allow this.
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aphrochine
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RE: Restricted Units

Post by aphrochine »

I think something should be said for moving to Corps/Army HQs under the restricted HQs and then simply moving the that HQ out. Something like:

- No assigning non-AF based BF/Eng/AA units to Air HQs.
- Observe respectable thresholds of Army/Corps HQs, ie Limit a Corps to a corps' worth of units, Army to an army's worth of units, etc.

This is based off the discount of transferring units to HQs within the same Theater, which is 1/4 the cost of normal inter theater transfer.
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Capt Hornblower
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RE: Restricted Units

Post by Capt Hornblower »

ORIGINAL: crsutton

This is a common house rule for Pbemial. All Manchurian units moved into China must be paid for in PPs. Pretty fair.

I don't have much experience playing as the Japanese, but playing as the Allies, I can say that after the first month or so of the campaign, I have more Political Points than I know what to do with. If the same holds for the Japanese, then paying Political Points for moving units from Manchuria to China doesn't seem like much of a hindrance. What could a Japanese player offer me as the Allies to entice me to go along with allowing something to happen that could not happen historically?
rroberson
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RE: Restricted Units

Post by rroberson »

tread carefully with this. The one thing I have learned is there are ways to skirt around paying full PPs to move divisions about and it was a most unhappy discovery.
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tk208
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RE: Restricted Units

Post by tk208 »

ORIGINAL: Capt Hornblower
ORIGINAL: crsutton

This is a common house rule for Pbemial. All Manchurian units moved into China must be paid for in PPs. Pretty fair.

I don't have much experience playing as the Japanese, but playing as the Allies, I can say that after the first month or so of the campaign, I have more Political Points than I know what to do with. If the same holds for the Japanese, then paying Political Points for moving units from Manchuria to China doesn't seem like much of a hindrance. What could a Japanese player offer me as the Allies to entice me to go along with allowing something to happen that could not happen historically?

Trust me after buying out a few full size div's you quickly run out of PP's as the japs!
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Lokasenna
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RE: Restricted Units

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: tk208

ORIGINAL: Capt Hornblower
ORIGINAL: crsutton

This is a common house rule for Pbemial. All Manchurian units moved into China must be paid for in PPs. Pretty fair.

I don't have much experience playing as the Japanese, but playing as the Allies, I can say that after the first month or so of the campaign, I have more Political Points than I know what to do with. If the same holds for the Japanese, then paying Political Points for moving units from Manchuria to China doesn't seem like much of a hindrance. What could a Japanese player offer me as the Allies to entice me to go along with allowing something to happen that could not happen historically?

Trust me after buying out a few full size div's you quickly run out of PP's as the japs!

1700 or so PPs for some of those nicely experienced divisions out of Manchuria, right? Quite pricy...
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Capt Hornblower
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RE: Restricted Units

Post by Capt Hornblower »

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
1700 or so PPs for some of those nicely experienced divisions out of Manchuria, right? Quite pricy...

Still doesn't tell me why someone playing the Allies would agree to make life more difficult for himself by allowing his opponent the option to move units from Manchuria into China.
heibernt
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RE: Restricted Units

Post by heibernt »

ORIGINAL: Capt Hornblower
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
1700 or so PPs for some of those nicely experienced divisions out of Manchuria, right? Quite pricy...

Still doesn't tell me why someone playing the Allies would agree to make life more difficult for himself by allowing his opponent the option to move units from Manchuria into China.

Im also an AFB, and i never have enough PPs. Too many restricted units on the west coast that needs to be bought out and moved into the pacific, and too many leaders that needs to be changed, and AC that needs to be changed..
The point is that the game engine allow those units being moved into china (the same way your indian units are allowed to move into Burma)without any restrictions. If any allied player plays without this HR; my hat is off to them. I guess they will have a hard time holding China.

But when a unit changes HQ, and is allowed moving by ship from WC to Australia, it would be strange not to let it march from Manchuria to China (something the engine let them do anyways).. Mind you that not all units are allowed to change HQ, and spending all PPs here will hamper the wareffort other places.

So the question isnt whether an allied player should allow units beeing bought out of manchuria, but if they require PPs to do so. If you wouldnt allow that, i guess a japanese player would counter not allowing you to buy out, and ship, those WC units..
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Lokasenna
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RE: Restricted Units

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: Capt Hornblower
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
1700 or so PPs for some of those nicely experienced divisions out of Manchuria, right? Quite pricy...

Still doesn't tell me why someone playing the Allies would agree to make life more difficult for himself by allowing his opponent the option to move units from Manchuria into China.

I've been following Bullwinkle's AAR, at least partially because I'm of the same mindset - I think Japan needs just about every advantage it can get, as I'm not sure victory is possible for them, all things being equal (player strategic and tactical skills) outside of the chance for an auto-victory... I'm still learning here, feel free to educate me if somebody or multiple somebodies have fought it out with a favorable result for Japan [;)]. To me, a draw in 1946 isn't really a victory. It would be astounding if the IJ economy lasted long enough to support it, and I'll grant that it's a moral victory, but by the victory conditions coded into the game...

It's all in the eye of the beholder, really. Everybody's got a preferred flavor.
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Chickenboy
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RE: Restricted Units

Post by Chickenboy »

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
1700 or so PPs for some of those nicely experienced divisions out of Manchuria, right? Quite pricy...

1700-1900's, depending on the outfit and readiness status of the Manchurian division. Takes 34-38 days of exclusive banking of PPs. More like 45-60 days / division IRL (with the other needed usage of PPs in a campaign game). That's a fair trade off, IMO. It's costly and time consuming for the Japanese player, but it can be done over time.

Not all Manchurian divisions are the same. Focus on those units that give you the biggest bang for your buck. Unit 'experience' levels don't cost more, so you should first buy / recombine and buy those most experienced IJA divisions.

Like rroberson says, be crystal clear with your opponent how they envision 'paying' for these Japanese (or Allied) units. Insist that 'buying' units be done by 'retail' PP, not some of the HQ workarounds that are admitted exploits.
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Chickenboy
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RE: Restricted Units

Post by Chickenboy »

ORIGINAL: Capt Hornblower
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
1700 or so PPs for some of those nicely experienced divisions out of Manchuria, right? Quite pricy...

Still doesn't tell me why someone playing the Allies would agree to make life more difficult for himself by allowing his opponent the option to move units from Manchuria into China.

A typical 'trade off' for this involves usage of Allied armies outside of their national boundaries too. If the Allies intend to use units 'restricted' to CONUS (lots of infantry, base force and air units) by 'buying' them out with PPs for the South Pacific, that's the trade off.

Similarly-want to use Indian troops in Burma or Malaya outside of their historical purview? Evacuate Chinese LCUs beyond the historical out of China? Pay the PPs. It's a trade off.
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Bullwinkle58
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RE: Restricted Units

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: Capt Hornblower
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
1700 or so PPs for some of those nicely experienced divisions out of Manchuria, right? Quite pricy...

Still doesn't tell me why someone playing the Allies would agree to make life more difficult for himself by allowing his opponent the option to move units from Manchuria into China.

Go read my AAR. [:)]
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