HQ/SU Bug

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elmo3
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RE: HQ/SU Bug

Post by elmo3 »

Gary got back to me on this. There is no active AI code that would set ALL HQs to support level zero. It might be possible to do this from the CR screen.
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gingerbread
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RE: HQ/SU Bug

Post by gingerbread »

There was another issue with the AI changing some player controlled units from 'Refit' to 'Ready' (V1.06.19 Bug fix #3), though I never saw any RCA (Root Cause Analysis) about it. But it seems that some conditions can make the AI meddle with the players units - perhaps this is as good a lead to said conditions as can be found.
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Michael T
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RE: HQ/SU Bug

Post by Michael T »

Curious. If all the HQ's are reset to Zero why would they take more than 3 sappers? As most Army HQ's had at least 2 or 3 times that amount returned...
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Ketza
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RE: HQ/SU Bug

Post by Ketza »

Brandenburgers.
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Michael T
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RE: HQ/SU Bug

Post by Michael T »

@elmo, do you still have any saves from the game when Pelton was questioning his manpower?

If so could you have a look and see if my (the Soviet) HQ's are all locked. This could narrow the window of when the problem started and under what version.
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gingerbread
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RE: HQ/SU Bug

Post by gingerbread »

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Curious. If all the HQ's are reset to Zero why would they take more than 3 sappers? As most Army HQ's had at least 2 or 3 times that amount returned...

Though I consider why the AI does what it does an aside (in this case), it could be a push (from Corps) instead of a pull (to HQ) if the AI is instructed to not use SU attachments to combat Corps. The AP that is to be recovered could very well have ended up in the Axis pool of AP since the return occurred during the Axis player turn.

The main thing to investigate is why the AI messes with units that should be off limits to it in the first place - what it then does is more a question of AI play design and is of secondary importance.
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RE: HQ/SU Bug

Post by elmo3 »

ORIGINAL: Michael T

@elmo, do you still have any saves from the game when Pelton was questioning his manpower?

If so could you have a look and see if my (the Soviet) HQ's are all locked. This could narrow the window of when the problem started and under what version.

Probably but I'll need to try and remember how I renamed them as files from a game all have the same name on the server. Will look tomorrow and report back.
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Joel Billings
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RE: HQ/SU Bug

Post by Joel Billings »

IIRC, Gary said the AI will put support into Corps units and he actually worked to make that happen (long time ago). He was surprised they'd leave the combat units once they were there.
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elmo3
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RE: HQ/SU Bug

Post by elmo3 »

I found a save with the name Pelton turn 79 that looks like your game. Yes, I do see sappers in Army HQ's when looking at the Soviet side of the turn. Unfortunately the way it works does not allow me to see if the HQ's are locked or what level of support is set.
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Michael T
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RE: HQ/SU Bug

Post by Michael T »

Can someone answer this for me.

If SU (Sappers) are attached to Corp sized combat units is there any rule in the game if it is WAD that would return those SU to parent HQ's regardless of whether the HQ's are set to AI or Manual control.

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Michael T
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RE: HQ/SU Bug

Post by Michael T »

I have been testing with different HQ settings and have not been able to get a HQ to 'steal' any SU from Corp units at all.

I am convinced this is a bug or corruption that has occured but I have no idea why or how. I believe the HQ's warping east and the 'stealing' back of SU is linked but I can't make any more progress. We need some more examples from others or Pavels input.

I am leaving it alone now unless it re-surfaces. When Pavel gets back I will see if its possible to 'refund' my AP's lost to this problem.

Thats all for now.
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Michael T
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RE: HQ/SU Bug

Post by Michael T »

The bug has hit me again [:(] I opened T89 and found that 119 Sapper Reg have been 'stolen' from my Corp by the parent HQ. I counted 111 Sapper Reg directly attached to HQ in T88. In T89 I count 230 in HQ.

I closed the turn again without saving.

The game is on hold again I am affraid.

Can someone please get back to me about this.

Also this turn my Northwest Front Air Command has dissapeared. It is coming up under the losses screen as Eliminated.
elmo3
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RE: HQ/SU Bug

Post by elmo3 »

I have the current save and the backup save. Will look at them some time this weekend to see if we can replicate the problem.
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Michael T
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RE: HQ/SU Bug

Post by Michael T »

Thank you [&o]
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Joel Billings
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RE: HQ/SU Bug

Post by Joel Billings »

Lee sent me the saves. At the save in the middle of the German turn 89 there are 27 engineer units in Soviet Corps. At the start of Soviet turn 89 there are also 27 engineer units attached to Soviet Corps. Are you saying there were more than 27 eng units attached to Soviet Corps when you ended your turn 88? If so, then they left the units between when you pressed end turn and when Pelton saved the game sometime during the German move (I can see some of his units have been moved). The AI could be taking control after you end your turn, or something could be going on in the German logistics phase. What we'd need to see is you save right before you end your turn, and then let us know before Pelton does anything so we can have a save before and after you end the turn. I hate to have you get stuck again, but I think we need you to move 20-40 sappers to the corps and play your turn, and then save, and then end your turn and notify us (and tell Pelton not to make a move until we let him know it's safe to play). If you do this, we might be able to trap the bug. The more Sappers you're willing to move, the easier it will be to see a problem. Sorry it's screwing up your game.
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Michael T
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RE: HQ/SU Bug

Post by Michael T »

Ok I have 272 Sapper Reg in total. At the end of my T88 I had 111 in HQ (I counted them 3 times in the CR screen) , so by my math that means I had 161 Sappers attached directly to Corp. And I did spend around 160 AP assigning Sappers over the course of turns 87/88. And I know certain Corps were full of Sappers (Nearly all of Northwest Corps) and now they are empty. So yes I had many more than 27 Sappers attached to Corp at the end of my T88.

Also I did have some Tk II/III assigned to Corp and they also returned to HQ. But these were stolen when I opened T87. I have not re attached anything now bar Sappers.

The bug also removed loads of Sapper battalions as well in my T87 but I have not re-assigned any of those.

I will do as you ask no problem. I will spend as much as I can re-assigning Sappers. Nothing on anything else. It might take me 2/3 turns to get to the same level of Sapper attachment as when the bug hit me as I don't have any more units I can afford to set to static now, I just have 60 AP per turn. Also it did not hit me in T88. So it skipped a turn. I am happy to do this as long as it takes to nail this thing.

So the sequence should be:

I play and save just before end.
Then End.
Then notify you.
Then you notify Pelton when he can start his turn.

Please confirm that process.



What about my dissapearing Air HQ?
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Manstein63
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RE: HQ/SU Bug

Post by Manstein63 »

I hope you're able to get this fixed. It must really be a pain especially as you seem to be breaking through Pelton's defence
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Michael T
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RE: HQ/SU Bug

Post by Michael T »

Ok I am ready to end my T89. I have saved just now. When I get the OK from Joel or Lee I will end the turn.

You should see I have 272 total Sapper III. 99 are attached to Corp and 173 are in HQ. Total 272. Check.

You should also check these things:

My Northwest Air HQ has vanished. It was there last turn. It is showing as disbanded. I did not disband it.

My Southwest Front HQ and associated Air HQ have vanished. They were there last turn. I have no idea what has happened to them.
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Joel Billings
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RE: HQ/SU Bug

Post by Joel Billings »

Ok, I have the save, and I also count 99 eng units in corps. Let Pelton know not to move yet, and go ahead and end the turn. I'll download when I can and then notify pelton he can make his turn.

Lee is AFK today due to a family emergency, but I'll try to check back periodically to get the save off the server after you've ended your turn.

As for the HQs, did you check to see if they changed name? What happened to the units that used to report to the HQs?
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Michael T
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RE: HQ/SU Bug

Post by Michael T »

Ok turn ended. Pelton knows not to begin his turn till we tell him.

None of the HQ's I mention have changed name. Although the Southwestern Front changed name to Central Front this turn. Thankfully its still on the map.

Southwest Front HQ and Air HQ are gone. I only had my Para's attached to Southwest Front. They have reverted to Stavka.

Northwest Air HQ has gone. Its Airbases have reverted to Northwest Front.
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