ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
I'm not 100% certain, but pretty sure, that subs on patrol carried neither fuel hose nor tank fittings to refuel another. The fittings could have been in the ER, but hose would need to ride outside the pressure hull in free flood areas due to volume. And no matter how well you clean a fuel hose it leaves a sheen when immersed.
Subs often left their anchors and chain with the tender at Midway, as well as lifelines and stanchions, plus their torpedo loading skids, which also rode in the superstructure. Everything which could make noise or be knocked loose in a DC attack was cut away and left behind. Taking a hundred feet of fuel hose along on the chance a fellow boat would need a drink? Unlikely.
I will neither confirm nor deny that modern SSNs leaving on sensitive missions today engage in this same behavior. Unless you've ridden the boats you have no idea how much bubbleheads HATE stray own-ship noise.
Having both talked with them on exchanges, and hunted them , I've got a pretty good idea and why. But todays Nuke submariners are a different breed than the diesel boat crews, by design and trying. Adm Flucky once told me that a modern sub sailor was generally horrified at some of the "stunts" he and his fellow wartime diesel boat skippers used to do.
My problem is that I cannot imagine any US sailor , especially with one of the submarine service, saying "too bad buddy , we don't have a hose. Guess you are just screwed". [X(]
I can imagine them doing above and beyond service trying to save them, up to and including running a rubber boat between the boats with five gallon cans, if that was all they had. [:(] I just don't see them giving up. This is a branch of the service that was legendary for comming up with innovated solutions to "impossible" problems. Sorry. I just can't visualize it. [:(]
First they have to radio they're out of gas. That attracts attention. Then another boat has to be close enough to help. That's unlikely. Then there has to be land without enemy which the out-of-fuel-boat can get to. If they're adrift the rescuer never finds them. Then the rescuer has to have fuel to spare; unless they're in the first third of the patrol that's unlikely. Then both subs have to stay exposed, in shallow water or moored to an island, a long, long time to do a transfer without hoses. We're talking thousands and thousands of galons to get back to Midway. Then, they don't have any five gallon cans. [:)]
Speculate all you want. It never happened.
Admiral Fluckey well knew the complexities of modern SSNs and the dangers of going off script with nuclear power. In a hot shooting war who knows? You might battleshort a reactor. But drive an SSN into water too shallow to dive? Nope.
He was a speaker at the commissioning of my boat BTW.
All perfectly true. And there was a reason WHY Rickhover allowed very few WW2 Sub skippers (Wilkenson and Beach are the only two that come to mind, but I'm sure there were others) because he didn't want a cowboy mentality. A SSN or SSBN is a VERY,VERY expensive ship, and a nuclear reactor extremely dangerous. A WW2 fleet boat on the other hand was pretty cheap. (Of course there is the human cost , but this is a war that had just written off hundreds of thousands during the fall of the PI, and when you are talking about the daily deaths of thousands , taking a risk with less then 100 men is easy. Cold, but true).
Sub crews today won't radio, but sub's were used in wolf packs in WW2. (OK, the USN ones only had 3-6 boats, but one carried a Commodore or Captain , and they didn't coordinate by telepathy). All I'm saying is that a justifyable risk might be taken. And to save a fellow sub crew? Absolutely. The Darter and Dace incident show this. So does the incident of trying to save that Dutch boat (I forget the number). Even though both these incidents were unsuccessful, attempts were made.
I'm glad you got to hear Gene Flucky. He was an amazing man and patriot. I was very lucky that I had several book signings with him when I was with the Navy Memmorial bookstore. While it's a pain for the authors, it's a great opportunity for staff to pick their brains (as the poor guy often had hours of standing or sitting around waiting for customers.) But I think Adm Flucky , like a great many of the WW2 boat drivers, felt that their boats were expendable , in a good cause. And even if a sub couldn't be refueled, I could imagine them trying to tow it. And of course if all else fails , take off the unfortunate crew and scuttle the boat.
I also can't imagine a boat crew that was said unfortunate crew, sitting there and saying "ok we're screwed lets sit here and die because we are afraid to use the radio." What did they have to lose? As the old saying goes, "if you fall off a building , you might as well try and learn how to fly". What have you got to lose? [:)]