Game Praises and Quick Questions

[SecuransRule]

Greetings all. Can't believe I didn't discover Distant Worlds sooner. Definitely the best Space 4X game out there by far. Games like the dreadful Endless Space and overrated SINS don't even come close to Distant Worlds. I would also add that for the first time in a 4X game, Distant Worlds doesn't get bogged down in late-game tedium and remains fun until the end. I think what kept me from getting it sooner was that I wasn't thrown for a loop when I looked at the screen shots. The irony though is that I've actually since found the game rather visually appealing, especially with Martian's great graphics enhancements mod. Sure, the ships may not be as pretty as SINS, but the battles are shorter and every bit as much fun to watch. Also, in DW the fleets will maneuver and battle it out depending on their level of technology and skill of the admirals, whereas in SINS the ships will line up and slug it out in a rather grindy WW1 fashion until someone cries uncle. Anyway, I wonder if Matrix is aware of the potential gold mine they have with Distant Worlds? I mean, the market for 4X space games is definitely on the rise, and if you doubt this you need look no further than Spacesector.com (Adam Solo at SS gave Legends a glowing review, BTW).

Anyway, I've been playing it for a few weeks and had a couple of quick questions. First of all, I tried playing in the single fleet command only mode. I thought this would be cool as it would seemingly allow you to experience being a fleet commander who doesn't always agree with what the government is doing. [;)] The trouble is, despite turning on all the automation it still seems the game is asking me to make decisions on war, diplomacy, and upgrades that I would have thought should be handled by the government and the high command. Is there something I didn't do properly in the automation settings? It seems to me though that in playing as an admiral commanding a single fleet, you should be aware of all major events but have no direct control over them.

Also, I've searched high and low in the manual and the forum but can't seem to find a guide to the optimal number of factions per map size. Specifically, I like playing on the large (not huge) map; what is the recommended number of total factions for this map?

[lancer]

[deleted]

[Velihopea]

I share your opinions of the game.

" Anyway, I wonder if Matrix is aware of the potential gold mine they have with Distant Worlds? I mean, the market for 4X space games is definitely on the rise, and if you doubt this you need look no further than Spacesector.com (Adam Solo at SS gave Legends a glowing review, BTW)."
This has been a heated discussion topic in these forums. So please do not jump if you get A nasty reply on that. (It's also what that ! refers to)

[SecuransRule]

ORIGINAL: lancer

!

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[SecuransRule]

ORIGINAL: Velihopea

I share your opinions of the game.

" Anyway, I wonder if Matrix is aware of the potential gold mine they have with Distant Worlds? I mean, the market for 4X space games is definitely on the rise, and if you doubt this you need look no further than Spacesector.com (Adam Solo at SS gave Legends a glowing review, BTW)."
This has been a heated discussion topic in these forums. So please do not jump if you get A nasty reply on that. (It's also what that ! refers to)

Heated? Why? Distant Worlds is a great game. It should be wildly popular among 4X and space gaming fans. In any event I want to see the game do well so that they keep publishing expansions, and who knows? Maybe a DW2???

BTW, as someone noted on SpaceSector. If Distant Worlds had ships that looked like SINS, it would be a candidate for one of the best games ever! [:)]

[Velihopea]

Again I agree totally. But still, as funny as it sounds, this is a certain way to derail your thread to one topic only.

See "When are you gonna do promotion" -thread, if you are more interested in this

[SecuransRule]

OK, concerning my question about automation as regards playing a single fleet command, I started a new game with everything automated and thus far have not noticed any immersion breaking events. The only (very minor) hindrance is that of course I have to turn the fleet and character automation off then back on whenever I want to add ships or heroes to the fleet.

I'm assuming that I can ignore those small popup messages that appear in the upper right corner of the screen (pirate offers, treaty announcements, retrofitting requests, etc), yes? I mean, I'm assuming the AI will take care of those things as it sees fit?

Anyway, this particular time out it has been quite interesting, as I'm playing my beloved Securans with uber 'peace-nick' settings(lol). That is, low desirability to form mutual defense pacts or to go to war, as well as low military expenditures. With my fleet then I'm trying to be a hawk protecting a dove government. Who knows, maybe my Admiral Antiope will become a Securan Caesar. [;)]

BTW, in my couple of weeks of playing DW, it's been my experience that so many unforeseen and interesting things can happen that the game seems to be crying out for someone to write some fan fiction.

[SecuransRule]

ORIGINAL: Velihopea

Again I agree totally. But still, as funny as it sounds, this is a certain way to derail your thread to one topic only.

See "When are you gonna do promotion" -thread, if you are more interested in this

OK, understood. Thanks for the admonishment.

BTW, I didn't mean to come down too hard on Endless Space. Perhaps dreadful was a bit too strong a word for me to use.

[Kayoz]

ORIGINAL: SecuransRule
Also, I've searched high and low in the manual and the forum but can't seem to find a guide to the optimal number of factions per map size. Specifically, I like playing on the large (not huge) map; what is the recommended number of total factions for this map?

Welcome to Matrix forums!

The optimal number is 1. Aggressive use of invasion forces, bombardment and the World Destroyer can help you achieve this. There can be only one. Remember that!

On a large map, I'd say 7-9 opponents is reasonable. More, and you're too squashed to grow any before butting heads with other empires.

But it really depends on your playing style - if you like to play the psychopathic bug races (esp Boskarans), then a more densely populated map is preferable. Experiment with race numbers - it's the only way to know what empire density you enjoy.

Oh - and grab the latest beta update. I'm not sure what version you get when you download, but the beta updates rarely fail to improve the game.

[Kayoz]

ORIGINAL: SecuransRule
BTW, in my couple of weeks of playing DW, it's been my experience that so many unforeseen and interesting things can happen that the game seems to be crying out for someone to write some fan fiction.

Best fan fiction I've seen - Emperor Fred
tm.asp?m=2466099

[Bingeling]

Anyway, I've been playing it for a few weeks and had a couple of quick questions. First of all, I tried playing in the single fleet command only mode. I thought this would be cool as it would seemingly allow you to experience being a fleet commander who doesn't always agree with what the government is doing. [;)] The trouble is, despite turning on all the automation it still seems the game is asking me to make decisions on war, diplomacy, and upgrades that I would have thought should be handled by the government and the high command. Is there something I didn't do properly in the automation settings? It seems to me though that in playing as an admiral commanding a single fleet, you should be aware of all major events but have no direct control over them.

I have the same problem you got, when playing my current AAR (and last time I played an AI AAR).

I want to run the military. I decide what we build, how we organize it, and how we use it (and for what). And I may do the odd interference stopping "no hope" spaceport suggestions.

The AI should manage the rest, and I limit my spending on suggested AI build amount.

I think an AI vs AI deal is a simple test of relationship. An AI want a certain score of relations to for instance free trade. The other AI may want a higher score, and reject until they think highly enough of the other part. This is what annoys me:

I was in a war caused by alliances. The message "pops up". While at war I notice that my alliances are gone, and have not noticed a popup. War can be spammy, though. I think that the AI rejected those calls. Which should mean that I only get the popup if the AI don't approve.

I have not had the AI make war in this game, so I am not sure how that happens. But I started very weak compared to the rest (in particular due to some nasty pirates).

I have gotten suggestion "We think we should offer peace for subjugation". I have earlier accepted a subjugation, which I assume the AI rejected. I have also had suggestion for straight up peace.

I have gotten popup "we suggest free trade". I reject (AI business). They send bribes, and finally I see the message "Treaty accepted, yes we want to free trade". Our relation got so high my AI suggested it.

So if it pops up, the AI already rejected.

The exception to silent diplomacy is peace and war (at least peace). The AI suggest "We should offer peace". My first AI AAR was in ROTS, where I experienced the world started hating me, because I attacked a mine outside war. I thought we were at war, but the AI made silent peace. I think a player prompted suggestion for war or peace is a good idea compared to that.

Is the above true? That is hard to know without testing more. I think I in a quick test game fully automated noticed war just because of a side effect of the war (like a troop recruitment, or some minor battle). It is more important to know exactly when war ends, than when it starts, though. There is no warning about attacks outside war, which has led to me busting the contested mine of my ally, because I thought it was enemy (different shade of blue).

[SecuransRule]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Kayoz - 7 to 9 factions on a large map? Wow! I've been playing with about 14-15, and you are right, it has led to early tensions. Also, thanks for the head's up about the beta patch. I will grab it pronto. Emperor Fred looks hilarious. I will definitely check it out. It makes me want to do my own called 'The Education of Admiral Antiope'. [;)] BTW, you mentioned the hives. Those guys can be a real pain if you let them get too powerful. I mean, spam attacks, planet killers, what's there to like? Of course this is probably as it should be with the rabid hives.

Bingling - So with the AI fully running things, those mini pop-ups in the upper-right corner are FYI only? Cool.

Anyway, my attempt at the single fleet-only mode has been a lot of fun, and quite the roller coaster ride. My cowardly government agreed to subjugation, and I said the heck with that! I took my fleet and went on my own undeclared war, eventually provoked a renewal of hostilities, and now peace has been restored with the Securans stronger than before. When I said that my admiral was going to be Caesar, I think I said more than I knew. This game is soooooo cool! I mean, how many games out there can have events as wild and crazy as the one I just described????

BTW, the only slight issue I've had is that I will still get the big popup message when a faction wants to discuss a peace treaty. Again, it seems that the government and not a fleet admiral should be handling this, but if this is the only immersion-killer that I will encounter, I can definitely live with it. I will look to loading the beta patch though.

[Bingeling]

A pop up always got two possibilities when it comes from an "other empire suggestion".

These got two options, accept and reject.

What I believe, is that we see that popup only if the AI did not accept. But, I have not really tested this, and it is probably a bit awkward to test as well. For instance, there is no log of AI diplomatic actions (but treaties signed are logged).

In the options there is a choice to "suppress all popups". I am not sure exactly what this mean (never tried it), but it could be useful. I assume it is for the "movie" mode of no manual control at all, though.

[Haree78]

There is a tick button to suppress all pop ups, you could consider doing that?

To simulate AI Vs AI relations fairly closely never accept anything, except for Mutual Defence Pact honouring requests. Your own AI when set to automate will send out requests for peace, free trade etc. based on when he is ready and AI's wont make pacts until both are ready. The AI seems to ALWAYS honour an MDP also even if they might end the war quickly.

You might not have seen the AI start a war in your game Bingeling because the AI does not like to fight multiple wars at the same time, as you are constantly honouring MDPs you don't give the AI a chance to pick a next victim!

[Bingeling]

If it always honors MDP, why am I asked? I get asked about MDP while at peace.

Treaties works automatically, trade sanctions are suggested (I may lack some automation, but I doubt so).

Peace was suggested. The hard thing is knowing the AI logic when the other part is the source. Like the enemy suggests peace. What did the AI think? Probably it don't want peace, but it is hard to know.

[SecuransRule]

I finished the single fleet-only command game last night and really enjoyed it. As far as getting the occasional end-war request, on hindsight I really didn't mind too much as this was completely in keeping with my fleet admiral being something of a Caesar type. [;)] Of course there were some dry moments when there wasn't much to do other than upgrade my fleet, but it did seem that for a peace-loving civilization my Securans got in to more than their share of wars. This might have had something to do with the faction Imperator having 'expansionist' in her character attributes. I suppose it's hard for large empires to avoid wars.

It was also interesting to note that occasionally the AI would annoy me by taking ships and even heroes away from my fleet, and when it took away my main admiral, I basically did a hero 'trade' with the AI to get her back. In an odd way though this was very realistic, as it sort of simulates getting into squabbles with the high command (kind of like the ones Picard and Kirk always seemed to be getting in to with their bosses [;)]

Anyway, thanks guys for the additional clarifications. What else can I say but that Distant Worlds is great? An extremely satisfying game on many levels. Any designer wanting to do better has definitely got their work cut out for them.

[Antiscamp]

Let me add my praises for this game. I found this game through a let's play on YouTube back in march or april this year and have been keeping an eye on it since then. I found it way too expensive and too much to fork out for at that time. Yay for Matrix' New Years sale!

I recently bought the base game and am going to get Shakturi and Legends for Christmas. I've already plowed down a really fun weekend into the base game to call it great value for money. It's the best 4x game I've seen in a long time, and I've tried a lot of them. This game is detailed, deep and lets you take your time; automation of boring tasks is really a great idea. Really great effort!

I'm looking forward to Shadows too and especially its function where you can start the game in the pre-hyperspace era. That scenario really fascinates me a lot.

[Haree78]

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

If it always honors MDP, why am I asked? I get asked about MDP while at peace.

Treaties works automatically, trade sanctions are suggested (I may lack some automation, but I doubt so).

Peace was suggested. The hard thing is knowing the AI logic when the other part is the source. Like the enemy suggests peace. What did the AI think? Probably it don't want peace, but it is hard to know.

You misunderstand me. In an AI controlled empire that is not the player's empire they will always honour an MDP. I'm not sure what happens when you suppress pop ups in the options but perhaps the AI will honour the MDP for you?

If you are getting trade sanctions and peace suggestions are you sure you have it on automated? I am currently automating everything in this game to test the AI and I don't get any suggestions.

[Bingeling]

I added the extra option (war and sanctions) and this made trade embargoes happen automatically. It has done free trade/alliances without that.

I have not had a war since putting it on auto, and it suggested to make peace while it was on suggest. I think that is clean enough. The AI proposed peace, and I rejected. The AI would already have suggested peace if it thought "requirements were met".

The info on MDP is useful, I should have kept accepting. This area should be improved, though.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: SecuransRule

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Kayoz - 7 to 9 factions on a large map? Wow! I've been playing with about 14-15, and you are right, it has led to early tensions. Also, thanks for the head's up about the beta patch. I will grab it pronto. Emperor Fred looks hilarious. I will definitely check it out. It makes me want to do my own called 'The Education of Admiral Antiope'. [;)] BTW, you mentioned the hives. Those guys can be a real pain if you let them get too powerful. I mean, spam attacks, planet killers, what's there to like? Of course this is probably as it should be with the rabid hives.

Bingling - So with the AI fully running things, those mini pop-ups in the upper-right corner are FYI only? Cool.

Anyway, my attempt at the single fleet-only mode has been a lot of fun, and quite the roller coaster ride. My cowardly government agreed to subjugation, and I said the heck with that! I took my fleet and went on my own undeclared war, eventually provoked a renewal of hostilities, and now peace has been restored with the Securans stronger than before. When I said that my admiral was going to be Caesar, I think I said more than I knew. This game is soooooo cool! I mean, how many games out there can have events as wild and crazy as the one I just described????

BTW, the only slight issue I've had is that I will still get the big popup message when a faction wants to discuss a peace treaty. Again, it seems that the government and not a fleet admiral should be handling this, but if this is the only immersion-killer that I will encounter, I can definitely live with it. I will look to loading the beta patch though.

Before I go too far, let me first state that your game experience will vary based on your system specs. Obviously the more powerful your computer, the more empires you can successfully support in a game.

You can download several mods from here in the modding forum, Haree78's mod tm.asp?m=3141149, will let you have more than 30 empires in a game. I regularly play with 32 empires including my own on a 15 x 15 1400 star map. It gets very interesting to be sure. [;)]