Slaughter on The Eastern Front 15.82 : 1 Ratio

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Peltonx
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RE: Slaughter on The Eastern Front 15.82 : 1 Ratio

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: Disgruntled Veteran

ORIGINAL: Pelton

The reserve commitment is 33% as it has always been. Poeple have changed frontages of armys so they have 9 chances per turn min for 3 turns.

The SHC is still grinding down GHS it just takes 60 turns instead of 20 without it.

Is this for GHC only?

The reason I ask is that in my current game the SHC player is getting between 60-80% activations per turn with an average of 20 attacks per turn. The only time reserves don't activate is when I have overwhelming superiority or extreme luck. Does anyone else notice this?

I am playing Bobo and hes getting a very good reaction % also in 1942. It has had very little effect as I am still winning 80% of the time.

I do all my infantry Del attacks first then panzer DL then hasty.

By the time I do hasty RMA are all done.

The number of RMA's per unit is 1 per turn 2 once in a blue moon.

I still rip through defences but it slows you down.
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RE: Slaughter on The Eastern Front 15.82 : 1 Ratio

Post by hfarrish »


...and the downside of it is that those units set to reserve are not refitting, and if they fail to halt the German attack they are then less effective in defending their own hex. I pretty much stopped bothering with reserves in '42 for these reasons - plus given the scarcity of APs trying to get your command structure to support effective reserve activations is just not worth the cost, imo.

Of course, that statement above is only really with respect to the Soviets in 42 - other situations obviously different.
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RE: Slaughter on The Eastern Front 15.82 : 1 Ratio

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: hfarrish


...and the downside of it is that those units set to reserve are not refitting, and if they fail to halt the German attack they are then less effective in defending their own hex. I pretty much stopped bothering with reserves in '42 for these reasons - plus given the scarcity of APs trying to get your command structure to support effective reserve activations is just not worth the cost, imo.

Of course, that statement above is only really with respect to the Soviets in 42 - other situations obviously different.

Yes for SHC its a huge waste of AP in most cases, Bobo basicly has 1 AF set-up and the rest not very good. I am guessing he saw the huge waste and stopped converting.
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RE: Slaughter on The Eastern Front 15.82 : 1 Ratio

Post by morvael »

What is a huge waste of AP?
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RE: Slaughter on The Eastern Front 15.82 : 1 Ratio

Post by hfarrish »


Spending AP as the Soviet in '42 trying to maintain tight command structures that help reserve commitments. Virtually every game that is ongoing right now those APs are really needed for unit creation / buildups.
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RE: Slaughter on The Eastern Front 15.82 : 1 Ratio

Post by morvael »

Too bad I didn't know that in my first ever MP game (and first ever as the Soviets) vs cpt flam :-) Spent a lot of AP to keep every army at 18 CP (usually 7 rifle div + cav/tank corps or 8 rifle div + 2 tank brig) and having the same set of support units everywhere. I'm really AP constrained, that's true (in '41 I spent too much upgrading planes and changing leaders), but I do enjoy my game (until a breakthrough will happen).

edit: but I'm not building up any rifle corps, except 2 for Kerch (good blockers) and 1 for fun (Guards) in the Moscow Area - divisions offer more ZOC cover and deeper front defense. Corps is good for attacking, which I do not plan doing for now (it's turn 53).
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RE: Slaughter on The Eastern Front 15.82 : 1 Ratio

Post by 821Bobo »

I have not spent a single AP in 42 for sorting C&C. This was all done in 41. You have to start from turn 1 and it pays off. Every destroyed unit in 42 is replaced with new formation from Stavka reserves - zero AP costs.
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RE: Slaughter on The Eastern Front 15.82 : 1 Ratio

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

I have not spent a single AP in 42 for sorting C&C. This was all done in 41. You have to start from turn 1 and it pays off. Every destroyed unit in 42 is replaced with new formation from Stavka reserves - zero AP costs.

You have to spend AP to build new units after October 41.
or you found some new exploit/cheat
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RE: Slaughter on The Eastern Front 15.82 : 1 Ratio

Post by carlkay58 »

No, what he is talking about is that new divisions (from wherever - either reinforcement or replacement of the destroyed units in 1941) start in the command of STAVKA (or at least if done properly) and can replace the destroyed unit in an army with 0 AP cost for being transferred.

The Soviets actually have a pretty good helping of divisions available in 42 from the free rebuilds in 41. Also there are so many brigades that can either be absorbed into low TOE divisions or combined into a division for minimal AP costs.
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RE: Slaughter on The Eastern Front 15.82 : 1 Ratio

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

No, what he is talking about is that new divisions (from wherever - either reinforcement or replacement of the destroyed units in 1941) start in the command of STAVKA (or at least if done properly) and can replace the destroyed unit in an army with 0 AP cost for being transferred.

The Soviets actually have a pretty good helping of divisions available in 42 from the free rebuilds in 41. Also there are so many brigades that can either be absorbed into low TOE divisions or combined into a division for minimal AP costs.

heheh yes when he said zero I was like whats he smoking?

Yes he did have allot of those to flip.
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RE: Slaughter on The Eastern Front 15.82 : 1 Ratio

Post by heliodorus04 »

Right, I've been speaking to the superior Soviet Command and Control (compared to the Germans). Regardless of the sh1tsh0w that your Red Army starts in, you can fix it by the 0 AP new arrivals, and when you really really really need to move a division to a different HQ, it costs you 1 AP on average.

Germany, meanwhile, costs on average 3 AP (including the half-cost reduction for successful die roll).

Romania/Hungary, which were organized about as effectively as the Red Army, pays a minimum of 8 AP to move a division.

This translates to superior efficiency in the Red Army due to better organization (due to hand-outs that WitE gifts to the Soviet over and over again) than the Wehrmacht in 1941.

Between its disproportionately easy-to-raise morale (and Germany's hard-wired morale degradation due to National Morale), and the Soviet's fantasy-land super-efficiency, the game is barely a challenge for any Soviet player.

Remember, all you have to do to win as the Soviet is reduce your own casualties and wait for what Flavius calls "Soviet Army 2.0" (the superior TOEs of late 42/43 take care of everything you lack). That's it - just be a passive turtle till 43, and the game is yours in 1944.
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RE: Slaughter on The Eastern Front 15.82 : 1 Ratio

Post by Seminole »

when you really really really need to move a division to a different HQ, it costs you 1 AP on average.


Have you seen what it costs to move a Corps for the Red Army?
I think that is a better 'apples to apples' comparison when it comes to battlefield utility.
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hfarrish
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RE: Slaughter on The Eastern Front 15.82 : 1 Ratio

Post by hfarrish »

ORIGINAL: Seminole

Have you seen what it costs to move a Corps for the Red Army?
I think that is a better 'apples to apples' comparison when it comes to battlefield utility.

Not to mention the other things that Soviet players have to spend APs on (the whole 0 AP thing only works for 6 months). Obviously its not a major problem for GHC given that most German players build hundreds of FZs and still have APs to spare.


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RE: Slaughter on The Eastern Front 15.82 : 1 Ratio

Post by Seminole »

Obviously its not a major problem for GHC given that most German players build hundreds of FZs and still have APs to spare.

German units also return the battlefield free the whole game, correct?

We have strategies promulgated under the auspices of exhausting Soviet APs simply rebuilding destroyed counters, as if such administrative considerations were the crux of the war.

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RE: Slaughter on The Eastern Front 15.82 : 1 Ratio

Post by morvael »

Once paid for, every unit should reform for free, as do the German ones. It should be a matter of manpower (first and foremost) and equipment, not APs, that could be drained by Germans killing a lot of units.
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RE: Slaughter on The Eastern Front 15.82 : 1 Ratio

Post by Michael T »

I play both sides without bias and honestly the Axis do not have an AP problem at all. The Soviets however do have a problem with AP's. And that the Axis can use the so called 'AP crunch' as a viable strategy to win games is ridiculous.
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RE: Slaughter on The Eastern Front 15.82 : 1 Ratio

Post by morvael »

So maybe each killed unit could add AP for the Soviets? That would be easier to implement than making their units rebuild automatically.
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RE: Slaughter on The Eastern Front 15.82 : 1 Ratio

Post by morvael »

Even better idea: keep the early '41 special rule in effect for the entire game, so that destroyed units return after 4-27 turns, but with no AP cost.
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RE: Slaughter on The Eastern Front 15.82 : 1 Ratio

Post by Peltonx »

AP are an issue for GHC I am finding as I find better and better ways to do things. They surely are not as a big an issue for SHC.

In all my games I am at 400, but only because I have allot of units in static mode, but nearly every turn I can spend the 50 NP.

As you go from offensive to defensive mode which is 2/3 of the game for GHC you have to completely change the C&C of the GHC.

Very very few poeple even get to this point most games end with GHC rolling the SHC or SHC rolling west in late 42 to early 43. The few who do get to 1943 have done so few times that they never try anything "new".

I only use a handfull of HQB now as it is better in long run to save the trucks and don't build that many forts. Once the GHC breaks forts will not help until close to Berlin when your disbanding divisions because you dont have the room for them.

I wish I had allot more AP's not for forts or HQB's. Allot of little things add up to big things over time.
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RE: Slaughter on The Eastern Front 15.82 : 1 Ratio

Post by Michael T »

Even better idea: keep the early '41 special rule in effect for the entire game, so that destroyed units return after 4-27 turns, but with no AP cost.

Yes this should be the case. The limit should only be whether you have the armaments and manpower to fill them out. Seems to make perfect sense to me.
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