CB (Long, if I last until Winter): Bonners (Soviet) vs Isokron (Axis)

Post descriptions of your brilliant successes and unfortunate demises.

Moderator: Vic

User avatar
Bonners
Posts: 490
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:16 am
Location: Tan Lan, North Wales

CB (Long, if I last until Winter): Bonners (Soviet) vs Isokron (Axis)

Post by Bonners »

Right so here we go again. Isokron kindly allowed me to concede defeat in our last game and we have now set up a game with him showing me how the Axis offensive should be played. I already had a bit of prior warning as he'd told me that it is possible for the Axis to get a couple of pockets in place on the first couple of turns.

I still expect to take a bit of a beating but I'm hoping I've at least learnt something from the last game and will make a better game of it this time. With that in mind, Stavka politely suggested that it might be worth my while going into the game with a strategy. Once I picked my self back off the floor I decided that having a bit of a think about the game beforehand maybe wasn't such a bad idea.

So, for the first few turns I am trying to do the following:

1. DON'T PANIC!!!!!
2. RUN AWAY!!!!!
3. RUN AWAY SOME MORE!!!!
4. Be prepared to sacrifice frontline units who are caught in pockets. I do not think I am a competent enough player to fight it out on the line. Despite every fibre of my being screaming at me to fight I am going to keep withdrawing and pick my fights.
5. Work out a sensible strategy for playing PPs. On the first couple of turns concentrate on replacing bad generals, I'm mainly looking at low organisation values and hope to get most up into the 30s at least. Starting off from the most threatened parts of the front. Secondly is to play the fortification cards around the two most threatened parts of the front, in my mind Voronezh and Rostov. Next priority is to use left over points to gradually move the front troops into the armies rather than the front commands. Only after all that is up and running will I consider playing the replacement cards (unless I panic!).
6. With cut off troops make a call as to whether they can get out of pockets or not. Those that cant get out either attack to try and cause casualties if they are in the open and there is any opportunity or in rough ground, towns and cities will sit in place and wait to get knocked out in the hope of causing a bit of disruption to the German advance.
7. The frontlines will withdraw and will only hold around objectives, rough ground and rivers. The exception to this will be sacrificing the odd unit to the railway lines to slow his advance.
8. The airforce will in general run away, bombers wont be used for a long time, but I might move up fighters for interception duties on mass in a few turns when the Luftwaffe has been worn down by AA defences.
9. Sevastapol, am I good enough to hold it? Nope, run away. I presume Isokron will give me a lesson in howto attack fleets, but I'm going to go all out and try and withdraw a few units before they die.
10. DON'T PANIC!!!

As for Isokron I reckon he'll be doing everything I didnt. I dont expect any costly frontal assaults on either Rostov or Voronezh. With that in mind I expect his main assaults to come across the North of Rostov and to the South of Voronezh. Obviously in these areas I will have to try and get units to defend, but I am still going to prioritise Voronezh and Rostov just so he cant take them on the run and unhinge my whole defence at the start of July.

Right, onwards then......
User avatar
Bonners
Posts: 490
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:16 am
Location: Tan Lan, North Wales

RE: CB (Long, if I last until Winter): Bonners (Soviet) vs Isokron (Axis)

Post by Bonners »

28th June

There isnt actually that much to report on the first turn, but it is interesting to show Isokron's offensive. It is nasty and he was as good as his word in making decisive breakthroughs in the north and making my line untenable in the South.

Up North there are large parts of my frontline either encircled or at risk of encirclement next turn:



Image
Attachments
28thJune..rnNorth.jpg
28thJune..rnNorth.jpg (276.33 KiB) Viewed 355 times
User avatar
Bonners
Posts: 490
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:16 am
Location: Tan Lan, North Wales

RE: CB (Long, if I last until Winter): Bonners (Soviet) vs Isokron (Axis)

Post by Bonners »

28th June

...and in the South, although there are not the same level of encirclements he cause enough damage to my units to mean that I am going to have to do a hasty retreat back from the lines, although I don't have as far to go with how close he is to Rostov:



Image
Attachments
28thJune..rnSouth.jpg
28thJune..rnSouth.jpg (253.88 KiB) Viewed 355 times
User avatar
Bonners
Posts: 490
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:16 am
Location: Tan Lan, North Wales

RE: CB (Long, if I last until Winter): Bonners (Soviet) vs Isokron (Axis)

Post by Bonners »

28th June

Before retreating I do manage to actual inflict a bit of damage. The pocketed units have a go at 3rd Motorized and it retreats the wrong way...straight into the arms of the newly arrived 18th Tank Corp, so I actually get to wipe out one of his units. I also manage to get a regiment of the 111th Infantry Div, although I suspect that may have been a deliberate trap to prevent me from retreating. Here is a quick snapshot of the northern front at the end of the turn, as you can see I've kept to falling back although a couple of units, such as the 6th division have stayed in place because I reckon it is more problems for the German for them to stay in the town rather than a futile attempt to escape the pocket.



Image
Attachments
28thJune..rnNorth.jpg
28thJune..rnNorth.jpg (287.83 KiB) Viewed 355 times
User avatar
Bonners
Posts: 490
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:16 am
Location: Tan Lan, North Wales

RE: CB (Long, if I last until Winter): Bonners (Soviet) vs Isokron (Axis)

Post by Bonners »

30th June

More misery. I dont retreat fast enough and there are more significant pockets made. They are pretty tight, so I continue with my previous plan and beat a retreat all the while tring to bring my forces forward to the build a defensive line of sorts although I suspect I will have to fall further back to a better line before I allow him to attack. I think these pockets are quite significant, although my losses have not been catastrophic so far they are about to rise significantly once the pockets are eliminated. Note the 6th div which has not been eliminated yet and is surround by German infantry. Yes it will die next turn, but I reckon it was right to leave in place as at least it is slowing the advance down, fight to the end comrades you will not be forgotten!



Image
Attachments
30thJune..pockets.jpg
30thJune..pockets.jpg (265.23 KiB) Viewed 355 times
User avatar
Bonners
Posts: 490
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:16 am
Location: Tan Lan, North Wales

RE: CB (Long, if I last until Winter): Bonners (Soviet) vs Isokron (Axis)

Post by Bonners »

30th June

Around Rostov things are not looking too good. I am rushing up units from the front commands and the Caucasus but it is a race now to see if I can get the lines in place before Isokron is able to launch his offensive in force. I am not expecting a head on attack on Rostov, but cant take the chance so it gets first priority from the 51st Army; meanwhile to the north 24th army is joining the fray. I have good ground in places and can funnel him away from the railways, but I have little space left to retreat before I expose Rostov. I have a feeling a decision will be made for me by Isokron's next turn.



Image
Attachments
30thJuneRostov.jpg
30thJuneRostov.jpg (216.21 KiB) Viewed 355 times
User avatar
Bonners
Posts: 490
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:16 am
Location: Tan Lan, North Wales

RE: CB (Long, if I last until Winter): Bonners (Soviet) vs Isokron (Axis)

Post by Bonners »

30th June

...and finally Sevastapol. I've kept to my original plan not to fight and I've taken most units off, we'll see what losses my transports take from the German artillery and air attacks, hopefully a few units will get away successfully.

Obvious the other side to this is that 11th Army now gets to start to deploy. I dont think Isokron will cross the Kerch straights, but I'm not about to take a chance. At least two armies and a front command will stay in the Caucasus, mainly defending ports and I'm thinking that couple of engineer units might be good to the rear of Rostov in case he tries to interdict my supply lines with a bridge bombing campaign.

What I actually suspect is that the artillery will be distributed across the fronts and the infantry divisions will show up somewhere far more useful than when I used them.



Image
Attachments
30thJuneSevastapol.jpg
30thJuneSevastapol.jpg (100.38 KiB) Viewed 355 times
User avatar
wallas
Posts: 219
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:43 pm

RE: CB (Long, if I last until Winter): Bonners (Soviet) vs Isokron (Axis)

Post by wallas »

ORIGINAL: Bonners

I am rushing up units from the front commands

Due to command failure keep 2-3 hexes between you and the germans at all times if possible.

my 2 cents
User avatar
Bonners
Posts: 490
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:16 am
Location: Tan Lan, North Wales

RE: CB (Long, if I last until Winter): Bonners (Soviet) vs Isokron (Axis)

Post by Bonners »

ORIGINAL: wallas

ORIGINAL: Bonners

I am rushing up units from the front commands

Due to command failure keep 2-3 hexes between you and the germans at all times if possible.

my 2 cents

Too late! I've got a 1-2 hex gap all the way down from the North, but am in contact to the North of Rostov, mainly because it is all rough ground where I've held my ground, so I'm hoping to keep some casualties before retreating again. We've just had the first mud turn, not going to update in full because nothing has really moved. But I had command penalties all along the line and would've had to leave too many units behind if I'd have retreated further. Hey ho, we'll see what happens next turn. If possible when retreating I do like to leave the gap, I'm just not retreating fast enough at the moment.
User avatar
Bonners
Posts: 490
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:16 am
Location: Tan Lan, North Wales

RE: CB (Long, if I last until Winter): Bonners (Soviet) vs Isokron (Axis)

Post by Bonners »

4th July

I will call this update the 'why didnt I see Wallas' comments before doing 2nd July turn'. I am resisting the temptation to panic, but it has been another disastrous turn. I hope people dont mind me putting up this AAR, I am hoping that it might be instructive to other novice players to help them realise that any risks or mistakes you take against human players will be punished.

I made three mistakes on 2nd July:

1. Thinking because a line was 90% secure that was good enough not to withdraw.
2. Blowing a bridge which left only one alternative route of supply (too risky)
3. As mentioned above, not leaving a good gap between my retreating forces.

By themselves not too bad, but add them all together and they add up to problems for me.

North of Rostov there was one gap in the line that was slightly weaker and Isokron managed to exploit the gap in full. A huge hole as torn through the Soviet lines and was fully exploited by the German armour. There was one major breakthrough and two minor ones, which of themselves would not have been too bad, but they add up to the general picture of decay of my lines in the South. I didnt think he would be there in force enough to get the Panzers through, but full credit to Isokron he made sure he was there to fully exploit the opportunity. The map in the South before my turn:


User avatar
Bonners
Posts: 490
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:16 am
Location: Tan Lan, North Wales

RE: CB (Long, if I last until Winter): Bonners (Soviet) vs Isokron (Axis)

Post by Bonners »

Missed the map off:



Image
Attachments
4thJulystart.jpg
4thJulystart.jpg (389.39 KiB) Viewed 357 times
User avatar
Bonners
Posts: 490
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:16 am
Location: Tan Lan, North Wales

RE: CB (Long, if I last until Winter): Bonners (Soviet) vs Isokron (Axis)

Post by Bonners »

4th July

Well, new game new me, so although the situation is dire I decided not panic, use what resources I had left, look at the situation realistically and decide what to do. 46th Army being trained up from the Caucasus is going to have to for mthe new front line. The stark facts are they are not strong enough to fight though, so I will have to continue retreating and could end up with Rostov outflanked. If that is the case I have decided to leave some forces there, even though they will end up being cut off. I think it is important to at least hold his advance up for a couple of turns. The sacrifice those units make will buy me time elsewhere, he needs the railnet. The overall retreat is now on the way back to the Don, there is no use fighting with anything this side of the Don any more unless I can cause him some casualties.

I get another tank corps this turn. Ideally I dont want these on the front line, but again I make a hard choice, not from panic, but from the realisation that I need to hold him up to form a line further back around Millerowo. Therefore my tank corps attack his spearheads. Up north I blunt a panzer regiment, but I manage to wipe out another panzer regiment from his main assaulting forces in the South. I dont think it will be enough to stop him, but may gain me a turn. If my new tank corp survive they will be running away as fast as their tanks will carry them, I dont hold out too much hope though although I think it was a necessary sacrifice

Also in my new realistic and non panicky mode, the harsh truth is my line has collapsed. Note the 12th and 18th armies circled in red with the blown bridge. They are actually as good as surrounded. As I'm getting to know Isokron I realise he is not one to miss an opportunity, so no doubt he has also realised this. I have resigned myself to losing a good 60-70% of these troops. As they are not technically surrounded I will retreat as fast as I can to see what I can rescue:

Image
Attachments
4thJulyendSouth.jpg
4thJulyendSouth.jpg (355.46 KiB) Viewed 357 times
User avatar
Bonners
Posts: 490
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:16 am
Location: Tan Lan, North Wales

RE: CB (Long, if I last until Winter): Bonners (Soviet) vs Isokron (Axis)

Post by Bonners »

4th July

Just to give an idea of the state of affairs here is a picture of the overall view of the front showing the general retreat to the Don:



Image
Attachments
4thJulye..overview.jpg
4thJulye..overview.jpg (334.42 KiB) Viewed 357 times
User avatar
wallas
Posts: 219
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:43 pm

RE: CB (Long, if I last until Winter): Bonners (Soviet) vs Isokron (Axis)

Post by wallas »

ORIGINAL: Bonners

4th July

I am hoping that it might be instructive to other novice players to help them realise that any risks or mistakes you take against human players will be punished.

Best way to learn is practice, and we all have been in your position.
User avatar
Bonners
Posts: 490
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:16 am
Location: Tan Lan, North Wales

RE: CB (Long, if I last until Winter): Bonners (Soviet) vs Isokron (Axis)

Post by Bonners »

6th July

Just a quick update on 6th July as I forgot to take any screenshots before uploading my turn for Isokron.

On opening my turn three things immediately became apparent.


Firstly, this was the first turn I decided to contest the air war. My losses in the air were actually fairly bad, Isokron told me he was quite pleased with how his air offensive went. Conversely I was actually not too worried as I achieved what I wanted. As the Soviets you cant really beat the Luftwaffe in the air, what you can do though is gradually wear them down through attrition, and that is what I am doing. Losses in the air battles were roughly 3:1 in favour of the Germans.

Secondly, he has now completed the encirclement of 18th and 12th armies. My earlier estimate was a bit too optimistic and 100% of the encircled troops will not be coming back. Bad mistake on my part.

Finally, he took full revenge in the north and two of my tank corps were encircled and will not be coming out of the pocket.

So I am on the cusp of major decisions which I suspect I will take too long to make again, although I have noticed that the JU52s are regularly flying supply missions. He is also using them for recon missions at the end of the turn as well. He also is continuing the bridge bombing campaign to my rear. I dont have a lot of units spare, but I am gradually moving engineer units to the rear to try and make sure I get speedy repairs done to any bridges, I cant afford another disaster on the scale of 12th and 18th armies.

Overall though I'm afraid I leave the pocketed units to their fate. The only two areas where I remain in contact is around Millerowo and Rostov. Around Rostov I have to stay as it is the only way to slow him down in his advance to the Caucasus, around Millerowo I am undecided. I have to make a decision this turn and if it was like my game as Germans I suspect it will be one of his objectives. I'm thinking I am going to have to let him have it to try and create some more time.

I am facing a similar dilemma around Voronezh. All my units that are left have now reached the Don and I am digging in and have blown the bridges. I am not too sure how long I can hold though. He is rapidly flanking from the South as again I have withdrawn in force. The trouble is that if I retreat any further where is the next decent defensive line? There are tough decisions to make. My thinking at the moment is that I should make him at least try and fight for the line around Voroenezh. If he is quicker than I thought again and makes assaults on the next turn then it will be a different decision as I dont think I will be dug in well enough, so I guess it depends on how long I get to entrench and reinforce the line. On past experience with Isokron he normally surprises me by being a turn ahead than I expect with his assaults.

Overall forces at the moment stand at roughly 750k Axis to 400k Soviet, but a further 30-40k can be deducted from the Soviet figure to account for the pocketed units. I'll try and remember to post some stats up from the next turn.
User avatar
Keunert
Posts: 885
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:58 am
Contact:

RE: CB (Long, if I last until Winter): Bonners (Soviet) vs Isokron (Axis)

Post by Keunert »

How are you using your airforce?

my best results were putting fighter units way back so that they just barely reach the frontlines and are out of Luftwaffe range. set them on max. intercept whenever readiness is over 90%. do not let them fly with lower readiness.
this will hurt the Luftwaffe a lot. forget about bombers and IL-2's for now.

that is really the key to the Soviet airwar: keep your fighters out of Luftwaffe range! put them on airbases far behind the front. Direct raids will favour the Luftwaffe a lot. you cannot afford to give the Axis this advantage. further back your units will intercept just the same. the losses will still be high but they will be a lot lower than 1 - 3!

from the mistakes i made: try at all cost to save your HQ! you will need them badly once the reinforcements kick in. fully retreat all that is fast in the center. you will soon lose the rail connection there and then your center will be doomed. get artillery, HQ, AA and tank units out of there as soon as possible. give up Voronezh before a big encirclement is possible. retreat behind the Don once your position requires it. and maybe play some fortification cards around Rostow to protect Nowotcherkassy and Schachty. as long as the Axis doesn't get the rail support he will not be able to push you out of there.

and rail everything up from the South. every single unit!
User avatar
Bonners
Posts: 490
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:16 am
Location: Tan Lan, North Wales

RE: CB (Long, if I last until Winter): Bonners (Soviet) vs Isokron (Axis)

Post by Bonners »

Cheers Keunert, useful advice. I did move the airforce forward for one turn as I wanted one turn of fully committing the Luftwaffe. As a general rule of thumb I've been keeping them well back though, I just wanted a turn of air war! They've all moved back again now though. I noticed it was a tactic Isokron used against me which meant the Germans won initially, but it gradually wore down the airforce. The tactic he used was to keep switching bases and leave the odd one further forward as bait, but changing which base it was at each turn.

As for the other advice, I'll put up a map tonight as I'm wondering if it is time to fully retreat and basically give up the line from Voronezh to Millerowo? I think you're right about Rostov, unfortunately I've been fortifying around Voronezh, which might stop him making a frontal attack across the river. Maybe time for a change of tack and play my fortification cards in the South and just give up Voronezh? I'm sure he is trying to encircle as he keeps trying to bomb the bridges further behind to cut me off from supply.

As for railing stuff up, I have been doing, but I've left the coastal army I rescued from Sevastapol guarding the Kerch crossing. I cant just let him do a naval assault through the back door.

As for the rescuing of armies, that mistake is going to come back to haunt me. 12th and 18th armies have gone, or will be soon with no way of rescuing. I have taken the decent officers out and put them back in the forcepool. I am thinking of spending some of my precious pps to make a new army. Good idea?

At the moment pps are only being spent on fortifications and transferring units to armies from the front commands as I've got all the best officers available now in charge of armies.

I think I've only mentioned 18th and 12th Armies once in this post. Perhaps we should hold a memorial service for them:(
User avatar
Keunert
Posts: 885
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:58 am
Contact:

RE: CB (Long, if I last until Winter): Bonners (Soviet) vs Isokron (Axis)

Post by Keunert »

I placed them so that their range reached 3 or for hexes past the frontline. i only moved them back every once in a while. the Luftwaffe gets a bonus in airstrip raids, i tried to avoid it. in my game against Olivier i saw quite a drop in Luftwaffe efficiency by September.

I think it's safe to move 95 percent of your forces north. leave some units near the Kerch peninsula. i used my subs to constantly patrol the waters. your navy is superior enough to keep only two or three units behind on critical positions.

Your front line will soon get very stretched. you will not have all of it within HQ reach. But it will help you a lot if you can save your experienced HQ's to use them near Stalingrad, to defend the railline connecting your south with the north and other hot spots. just remember: creating a new HQ will need time: it's experience is low, it will be missing a lot of staff,truck and whatever. therefore save your already working HQ as best as you can.
in my experience you don't need to 'evacuate' officers. they will not get caught even if the HQ is destroyed. they will show up in the officer pool.

I think Rostow is more important than Voronezh. it is better defendable and depending on the chosen northern border houserule the Axis will not go much further beyond Voronezh. But holding Rostow will deny the Axis access to the south. it buys you time.
User avatar
Bonners
Posts: 490
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:16 am
Location: Tan Lan, North Wales

RE: CB (Long, if I last until Winter): Bonners (Soviet) vs Isokron (Axis)

Post by Bonners »

Cheers again Keunert, will be interesting to see what you think about Voronezh when I post up the next turn, maybe it is time to just retreat as you suggest.

Still undecided what to do about the HQs. I will need at least one to replace the ones that are left. As I see it, my options are to attach extra units to front commands, or create a new HQ, both options are not ideal though. I suppose the third option is to try and make do with the HQs I have left, again it is not an ideal option as more units will be out of HQ range.
User avatar
Bonners
Posts: 490
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:16 am
Location: Tan Lan, North Wales

RE: CB (Long, if I last until Winter): Bonners (Soviet) vs Isokron (Axis)

Post by Bonners »

10th July

I seem to be getting my dates mixed up along with everything else. We are on 10th July now, so I appear to have lost a turn somewhere. Anyway, tactics for this turn, after a lot of thought were to turn tail. Isokron had left a Pz Corps as bait outside Millerowo, if I'd have had more forces I would definitely have attacked, but it would have cost me my last remaining tank corps, so I make the bitter decision to let the Germans take Millerowo virtually uncontested.

Around Rostov I am slowly extending the line of fortifications, although it is slow progress. I'm not too sure how long I can hold, the gateway is being battered down, it just depends on how quickly we can reinforce the locking bars. Not fast enough I suspect.

I make the decision to hold around Voronezh this turn, the main reason being I am still trying to extract forces from the wrong side of the Don to the south and Isokron is not yet there with anything but infantry. His panzers are building up to the South though, so I suspect a flanking move. As he has to cross the Don and I've been blowing bridges like mad it will take him a turn to cross before he can exploit, so I'm happy to hold for now, this will be reviewed the moment the first bridgehead hits me.

I'm still undecided what to do about the dire HQ situation with 12th and 18th HQs about to be obliterated in their pockets. At the moment I just dont have the prestiges to create a new HQ, so it is a waiting game.

Map of the situation around Rostov and the creaking gate:





Image
Attachments
10thJulyendRostov.jpg
10thJulyendRostov.jpg (333.91 KiB) Viewed 357 times
Post Reply

Return to “After Action Reports”