Razing the Reich

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Scook_99
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RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton)

Post by Scook_99 »

Please read more carefully, In every summer, only one mud turn is allowed per zone during that time, and one snow turn per zone every winter. It's even. If skill level isn't there, the German needs the 17 clear turns to push out far enough to make a game. If the German is good, random weather is much better to play.
hfarrish
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RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton)

Post by hfarrish »

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Depends on the weather zone. As I recall, Soviet North is the only one guaranteed blizzard during these two months. That being said, most of the action will be in that zone.

Snow in February in Soviet North is very troublesome, btw.

The rulebook is pretty clear and in my current Pelton game there was no snow in any zone during Jan / Feb. I actually agree this is somewhat flawed...the Soviets should have a chance of unfavorable weather in their turn to shine.

I still think random weather gets a bad rap b/c (a) since most games end by '42, the German feels the impact most and (b) its impact on the Soviet during this period is underappreciated - not that it doesn't hurt the German more but there are negative impacts on the Soviet player from the uncertainty that mitigate it to some degree...for example in "mud" periods you can't just sit in your lines not worrying about anything, there is always the chance of a clear/snow turn that forces you to be vigilant or even carefully retreat. I know I've given up a lot of ground in my Pelton game that I would not have given up had I known the weather forecast...
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Michael T
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RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton)

Post by Michael T »

Well each to their own on the weather front. As I have said previously, I use non random no matter what side I play. I can't possibly see how a Russian could lose if he gets several mud turns in the summer of 1941. I like more of a challenge. Non random is even for both sides. Random can favour one side over the other quite heavily. Thats the problem with it as I see it.
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Michael T
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RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton)

Post by Michael T »

Getting back to the game at hand, I have an update ready to go once I get Pelton's next move.
hfarrish
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RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton)

Post by hfarrish »

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Well each to their own on the weather front. As I have said previously, I use non random no matter what side I play. I can't possibly see how a Russian could lose if he gets several mud turns in the summer of 1941. I like more of a challenge. Non random is even for both sides. Random can favour one side over the other quite heavily. Thats the problem with it as I see it.

Not to drag out the distraction, but I agree with you at least on one point - I am definitely in the camp that weather is far too heavy handed and needs more nuanced gradations...I guess just we would differ on whether that makes random weather a non-starter. I still feel like a game feels far more like "real" war in terms of not knowing exactly what date you are going to do every little thing than with non-random, but reasonable people can disagree on the point.
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Michael T
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RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton)

Post by Michael T »

If random was fixed up I would prefer it. I use random weather in pretty much every other wargame I play. I hope in WITE 2.0 they make a better weather table and weather process.
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Michael T
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RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton)

Post by Michael T »

End Soviet T10

AGN: The Axis assault towards Leningrad continues unabated. Four main lines of attack (see arrows on map) made 1 or 2 hex penetrations.

AGC: A Panzer group fuelled up via HQBU surges ahead to the south of Vyzama (see arrows), deflecting away from the direct line toward Moscow but rather towards Tula.
I have lost track of the Pz Corp detached from AGS . I suspect they may be HQBU where shown on the map, just behind the first penetration, ready to continue on next turn. But not certain about this. A worry as to where they are.

AGS: A strong thrust to the south of Kharkov as shown the map. But they over-extend and Soviet attacks throw back the 25th Mot Division and rout it.

Opening T11 I find no disasters, phew. 25th Mot is still broken :)

Pelton is driving hard along the Baltic coast with most of the AGN Mech units. Combat around Lake Ilmen is mostly Inf v Inf.

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Michael T
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RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton)

Post by Michael T »

Close up of Leningrad area.

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Michael T
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RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton)

Post by Michael T »

End Soviet T12

AGN. The bloodbath for Leningrad continues. The Axis grind out 1 or 2 hexes where shown on the map. Pelton shifts one Pz Corp from the Leningrad assault to just north of Velkie Luki.

AGC. The AGC Panzer blob keeps moving forward between the Oka and Tula. LAH strays too far forward and is surrounded and routed.

AGS. The Panzers pull back and HQBU ( I assume, where the circles are shown) except for a Pz Corp just to the south of Stalino. This prompts a 3 to 4 hex withdrawal to remove the German infantry factor from the coming attack.

This turn I denuded the line from Tula to Kharkov and withdrew from the German Infantry advance.

I have just opened T13. No disasters.

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randallw
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RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton)

Post by randallw »

You have some armor in rough hexes, like at the Valdai Hills; doesn't that penalize their CV?
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Flaviusx
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RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton)

Post by Flaviusx »

Not on defense.

Armor is also very tough to dislodge from swamps. And urban, for that matter.

If Pelton had any armor west of Smolensk to breach the Rhzev-Vyazma sector, Moscow would be in some trouble here. But the armor needed for that job is still up by Leningrad, presumably. (Or pounding its way through the Valdai.)

He's not going to take Leningrad I don't think. He would have been better off making an orthodox direct drive on Leningrad proper, the right hook turned into a fiasco for him and accomplished virtually nothing. Now he is behind schedule up north and in no immediate position to disengage and shift PG4 south, unless he's willing to write off Leningrad. So both Moscow and Leningrad are safe here in all likelihood.

He's going to take the Donbas with time to spare, though, that's just the way it is down south.


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Michael T
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RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton)

Post by Michael T »

Pelton has in his T13 pulled some Mech units from Leningrad and the Valdai (he has left 3 Pz and 4 Mot xx's at Leningrad) and they are now siting behind the lines between VL and Smolensk, maybe some or all have HQBU. I suspect this is where 2nd and 5th Pz will arrive on T14 as well. This forms a new and powerful Pz Gp on the direct line to Moscow. I will bring in more troops to this area. I may well hold out in Leningrad, fingers crossed. Moscow is a good chance as well. He only has 4 clear turns left now.
janh
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RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton)

Post by janh »

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx
If Pelton had any armor west of Smolensk to breach the Rhzev-Vyazma sector, Moscow would be in some trouble here. But the armor needed for that job is still up by Leningrad, presumably. (Or pounding its way through the Valdai.)

He's not going to take Leningrad I don't think. He would have been better off making an orthodox direct drive on Leningrad proper, the right hook turned into a fiasco for him and accomplished virtually nothing. Now he is behind schedule up north and in no immediate position to disengage and shift PG4 south, unless he's willing to write off Leningrad. So both Moscow and Leningrad are safe here in all likelihood.

He's going to take the Donbas with time to spare, though, that's just the way it is down south.

Seems Pelton has adjusted towards a direct route to Leningrad now and given up his right hook. Fiasco pretty much nails hit, given the ready numbers of Panzers his Armored Divisions probably don' pack the punch anymore they benefit from at this late stage.

His mistake might offer you the opportunity to hold Leningrad. Your chances after this delay are pretty good, although given the number of units he brought up there, he still has a reasonable chance to bully his way in there. But he probably could clear much space towards the east, so maybe some hot blizzard battles might ensue if he tries to grab it?
How are the chances he pull some of this Panzers off and towards an autumn rush to Moscow? Your defenses look thin, and he must certainly note that from recon as well?
Zonso
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RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton)

Post by Zonso »

It doesn't seem enough credit is given to the masterful job (thus far) Michael T is doing against Pelton, one of the best German players period. Instead some are trying to downplay it? I can't recall such an AAR from two highly skilled players. Granted, I personally thinking pocketing is so much better than grinding but against certain Soviet players there is no other alternative but to slug it out as creating encirclements will not be possible. I am very interested in how the Soviets conduct their Blizzard offensive as simple numbers alone does not determine success. The tipping point in this game may very well not come until late summer 1942.
janh
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RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton)

Post by janh »

No question Michael is playing a skillful game, and it seems more and more that he might truly get to Berlin.

His stopping Pelton south of Illmen was conducted well: early with a decisive effort. Had he delayed with less effort, Pelton's hook might once again have succeeded. Yet had Pelton not made this effort or feinted it, but gone for LG directly instead, his AGN Panzer might now be well on the way to Rshev and LG occupied -- which Michael might have delayed, but not as skillfully bloodied Pelton's divisions in the Valdai hills. Much as Micheal plays an excellent campaign, much of this is also just possible because Pelton got to focused on a tactic that will only bear fruits when unexpected, but else would seem uneconomical and slow, and against a prepared player like Michael a clear mistake. Once Pelton chose that route, Michael outplayed him there, and skillfully, no question.

He did a Sir Robin where the situation and terrain did not favor or even allow forward fighting (like before Pskov or against AGS after Lvov), but chose to fight only on the terrain and in the situation of his choice. This in conjunction with the opportunity Pelton offered him has left him in much better shape than the typical game against an excellent Axis player. If he doesn't make it to Berlin know, I will be quite surprised. He has better chances now that everyone before, I guess.
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Flaviusx
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RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton)

Post by Flaviusx »

I don't see Berlin happening for a long while here. We'll see if Pelton can do anything in 1942. It's hard for the Red Army to work up any kind of head of steam before 43, even in games where the German does poorly in 41. Red Army 1.0 hasn't got the chops to do much outside of the blizzard (and I expect Pelton to get past that more or less intact, he knows how to manage a blizzard at this point), and version 2.0 doesn't kick in until 43.

Michael's done well and as I've already stated responded absolutely correctly to Pelton's present strategy. He wasn't afraid to go all in on Leningrad in direct response to Pelton's all in. My only criticism at this point is that Michael's c&c looks a bit too technicolor for my taste. Really don't like having all these fronts mixed up the way he's doing, at least up in the north. But this may come down to a matter of taste; I'm completely cool with overloading Front commands in 41-2 and maintaining Front integrity, and near as I can tell he very much dislikes overloading them and is being forced to mix commands in order to avoid that. My own view is that Front capacity will sort itself out over time and that it's perfectly ok to overload them with up to 5 armies. (But anything more than that is too much.)
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Michael T
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RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton)

Post by Michael T »

T14 Update.

AGN. The assault on Leningrad has stopped! It appears the invaders could no longer stomach the losses they were suffering against the valiant defenders of Leningrad. The Mech units have been withdrawn. All seem to be heading towards the Rzhev/Vyzama sector.

AGC. A mech group pushes in a few hexes towards Vyzama. The Tula Mech group beat up a few front line INF units and return to their start lines?

AGS. The Mech group push a few hexes toward Rostov and then retire to their start lines? What is going on?

The game is with Pelton again. Report plus screen shots next turn. Some curious moves by Herr Pelton.

I am most pleased with the Leningrad situation. I hope I am not counting my chickens before the eggs hatch but it would appear the Soviets will hold Leningrad, who would have thought this possible?
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Michael T
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RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton)

Post by Michael T »

End Soviet T15 (25 Sept 1941)

AGN: It is safe to say Leningrad will not fall in 1941. There have been no attacks in this sector for 2 turns. The enemy has even withdrawn from their incursion just to the south east of Lake Ilmen. No Mech units remain in the area and many enemy INF divisions have been withdrawn or are now in the process of heading south.

AGC: There is a Pz Gp (5 Pz & 3 Mot) to the east of Tula that have for the past two turns simply demolished the Russian front line and then returned to their start lines.

There is another Pz Gp, which is all of the formerly unsuccessful Leningrad group plus the 5th and 2nd Pz (total 9 Pz & 7 Mot) that have thrust in a north east direction between Smolensk and Vyazma towards Rhzev. The lead units (1st and 20th Pz) were successfully counter attacked and thrown back 40 miles due to over stacking. They lose over 4000 men. The Red army swarms the sprearhead with as many units as possible.

AGS: The Mech units (5 Pz and 4 Mot) are content to smash my front line in front of Rostov and limit their advance to 1 or 2 hexes. His INF grind away.

I am not sure what Pelton is up to now. Clearly he has given up on Leningrad. I don’t think he is really trying for Moscow either. I think he may be just trying to chew up as many Soviet units as he can with the remaining clear weather. But I sense he is in position to take advantage of any opportunity that may present itself. So I am still very wary. Perhaps he is playing the same game in front of Rostov as well. This turn the Soviet OOB topped 5 million men. Really, I could not have hoped for a better position at this point in the game.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have Pelton’s T16. He has turned turtle. He has withdrawn from his bulge that was heading to Rhzev . He has abandoned Tula and is forming defensive lines across the entire front. Looks like the summer campaign is over. More maps T17.


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Michael T
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RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton)

Post by Michael T »

The Rhzev thrust.

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M60A3TTS
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RE: Razing the Reich (No Pelton)

Post by M60A3TTS »

Outstanding job. Tist has to be one of the best, if not the best 1941 performance against a highly skilled Axis player that we've seen in an AAR.
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