How to stop Germany as USSR?

[Misconduct]

I've beaten both Germany and USSR. As the Germans you have to play defensively, the AI is not to bright as shortly after you declare war or russia declares war on you - you have to instantly block off poland all the way south.

As the Russians I pulled most my units back, Left Finland alone - and started a massive build up around Stalingrad and Moscow, worked fine.

as far against a REAL player it will certainly be interesting.

[papajack]

ORIGINAL: panzers

I am playing as the Germans in the 1939 scenario.
What I have seen is that after about three turns in Barbarossa the Soviets show up with about 15 divisions and 8 tanks all in one turn. I don't have the strength to beat that. I have only 5 panzer armies and 7 mechs as well as the starting infantry. I am obviously doing something wrong because I can't compete with that.
I am playing the Germans on very easy and the Russians as normal.
What am I doing wrong that everyone seems to be having a relatively easy time with the Germans?
As a side note, my Panzers are all at level 3.

Dont forget about assigning Commanders

You cant just blast your way through with USSR , they are not Polish,dont push your panzers too far deep ,

Dont be fool by the initial easy breakthrough , I made that fatal mistake during my first game , underestimate them and get slaughter by their counter attack:}

[Misconduct]

Hold your panzers up in poland, let the russians attack, they pretty much throw everything except for units occupying towns into the fight.

I usually target the Tanks so they don't upgrade, once you destroy 4-5 of them then they are usually easy to simply by pass and get them later.

[Texican]

Soviets should be good defenders in any game. When I was younger, I met a guy who was German and claimed to be the grandson or grand-nephew or something of Von Manteuffel. He said Manteuffel told him of the Russians and said if you didn't attack within 48 hours, you might as well forget it. (Referring, I assume, to the abilities of the Soviets to effectively and quickly dig in).

Will have to give the game a try and see how this is represented and if the claims of the Germans being too strong are reasonable ones.

[AZKGungHo]

Hey Misconduct,

I tried your approach as the Russian in the 1941 campaign. I held Moscow and Leningrad in 41, early in 42 lost Leningrad and Moscow went in mid summer, Stalingrad fell late in the year and by July of 43 the Germans held all of Russia and I had three units left not far from Baku, when Russia surrendered.

You plan worked better, but I still say the Germans are too powerful or the Russians to weak - oh and the AI was on Normal.

[Menschenfresser]

Sorry guys...from my limited experience in this game, the Soviets are hopeless. Too hopeless. Not even that...they might as well surrender from the outset.

I've now played them several times and nothing lasts more than a turn against the German panzer units. One hit kills. I've tried inf corps spamming. Upgrades. Armor. Commanders. Nothing seems to work. The last game I purchased only Inf Corps. Not 1 PP spent on anything else. I lasted until Spring '42 when they took Leningrad, Moscow & Stalingrad on the same turn and I had nothing left on the map expect one fighter unit. It wasn't that they pushed me back, or executed an excellent breakthrough. No, it's just one hit and dead. One hit and dead. Until there's nothing left and they walk into my major cities.

Maybe it's just me, but I know from playing other WWII strategic level games that if the East Front doesn't play correctly, the simulation doesn't work. The majority of the German cause is decided in the east and therefore it needs to be spot on.

Furthermore, playing such a defense where one has no chance to retreat, counterattack, etc is just not fun. I felt like I was playing a game of Arkanoid and I was the blocks.

Is my experience abnormal?

I might add I've only tried it on normal. No changes to the stock set up.

[AZKGungHo]

Okay - tried again this time with the AI set on Easy for Germany and her allies.

Russia surrendered in February of '43 this time.

There is no stopping the Super Panzer Destroyers at this point. By games end there were at least 7 Super Panzer Destroyer Armies, a couple of Mech Armies and lots of others.

If this isn't addressed and soon it renders the game unplayable against the AI at least, and I would imagine the same for head to head play as well.

[SteveD64]

Played the Russians in the '41 game last night as well. Got killed. They only get around 200 PP per turn so building tank armies that can take on the Germans is out of the question. When the Americans entered i thought they'd get a boost due to Lend Lease but nothing, I dunno is Lend Lease even in the game?

I then fired up the '40 scenario thinking I might start building up the Soviet army a little before Barbarossa. USSR starts out with 60PP a turn and every research level at one. I didn't bother playing it.

[doomtrader]

OK, I can still make Soviets a little bit stronger in 1.04, but OTOH, could you please gove me some feedback about playing against Easy AI as USSR?

[Menschenfresser]

I'm looking at the data files, hoping to see something to change in order to reduce German invincibility. Still looking.

I see where starting tech levels can be reduced. As well as war economy.

I thought to change mud/winter effects, but those are already (if I understand the numbers) what I guess they should be.

Maybe someone can point me in the right direction. Essentially reduce German unit strength. Let's start with that.

EDIT: Might also want to check the Winter War victory conditions for the Soviets. Seems I can get a victor by just moving a Soviet army on the first turn of the war near Helsinki. No Finnish units opposing, and get a victory without combat. Perhaps that's the AI moving units away from the Leningrad front. Dunno.

[SteveD64]

I'll try the USSR on easy tonight.

[Menschenfresser]

Maybe I found it. In the Small scenario events xml. Around line 13000, if I'm reading the lines correctly, seems there are three events that reduce Soviet unit effectiveness if at war with Germany. 45% in 1939-41. 25% in 42 and 10% in 43.

EDIT: No, I guess it doesn't work. Or I'm doing it wrong. I still saw -45 until 41 and -25 in 42.

I still think it won't be enough.

2nd EDIT: Ah, seems the game doesn't use the path entered into event.txt. Still uses SMALL_EUROPE_SCENARIO.xml no matter what.

[SteveD64]

Just got done on Easy playing the Russians. The Panzer Armee deathstars just waltzed around zapping everything they touched. I managed to pocket an Armee and a panzer corps but apparently surrounding them and attacking from all sides caused more damage to me than them. Which I guess I can see but they were surrounded for several months! I killed the panzer corps at least, but the other deathstars came to the aid of the Armee.

Also you can attack from more than one hex only on the first round of combat. After that you can only attack from one hex at a time. I did not know that.

I was under the impression that Barbarossa resulted in huge German losses but here Panzer troops can just kill anything with very few casualties.

[Menschenfresser]

I've modded the Soviets up some and the Germans down quite a bit. I've also changed some things like basic unit values, increasing all other units except for the tanks.

Here's where I think the problem lies:

Basically once the Germans invade Russia (if they do it in Summer 41) they've had quite a bit of time to build units and get experience. In my last game (which was modded but not as heavily as it is now) I managed to last unit late summer 42 before the deathstars got me. At the end, I see that some German tank armies benefit from level 4 war doctrine, 90% experience, and 20% leader experience, putting their combat values in the 30's. Not to mention, they had as many panzer units (corps & army) as I had units during the high point of the war for me.

Unless you're behind a river or in a city, you don't survive the first attack.

What I've done in a nutshell is lower German land warfare doctrine levels, max leader experience, lower the rate at which units gain xp from combat and raise the value of all types of units except for tank armies & corps. I'll run another test game tonight after I eat and post the modified files if successful (and if you guys want them).

[AZKGungHo]

Okay - I just ran through the 1941 scenario as Russia and I set the AI for Germany and her allies at very easy. Russia surrendered in May 1943.

The Panzer Armies (Super Panzer Destroyers) are just too darn powerful! Either they have to be limited or slowed down in some way or the Russians are going to have to be a lot more powerful from the get go than they are.

Anyone else?

[panzers]

Ok. I have read all this and I am getting a little nervous about playing the Russians.
Before I get slaughtered, what is the best way to defend myself as far as technology and builds. I am building massive amounts of infantry core and lining them up at the border as per usual, but that doesn't seem to work in this game based on everything I have seen here. I am also working on my armor techs. Is that a good idea?

[AZKGungHo]

From what I've seen it might help IF you get lucky real fast. The downside is the more you spend on tech the fewer units you can produce,and the Germans will keep on killing units a a lot faster than you can replace them. Honestly I don't know but it's worth a try.

[Menschenfresser]

I don't think there's anything you can do playing as the Russians in the stock game. Nothing works.

Devs can correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like if Russia is being played by the AI, there are boost events given to her. Extra units and supply upon certain conditions being met that aren't available to the human player.

I'm testing 1939, playing only the Russians, with the following changes:

* Experience per combat lowered to 1 from 5
* Leader experience capped at 10
* Default strength of all unit types (except tank units) have been raised slightly (and costs per strength point lowered). This is in hopes that infantry will stand more of a chance against panzer deathstars.
* Germany's land warfare rating has been lowered to a start value of 1 from 2, with gains adjusted. They still reach all levels before anyone else, but it shouldn't be so easy for them at the start.
* Also land warfare now grants 5 per level rather than 10.
* Russian handicap has been lowered significantly.

Again, I think the biggest problem is compounded effectiveness. XP + Leader rating + leader XP + land warfare level = death

[papajack]

Anyone try this setting German hard with Soviet very easy ? Having a hard time as German

Is the patch 1.04 to make USSR stronger a variant/optional ? If not then playing at very hard difficulty , German will be the one getting slaughter ...

A very weak France has also contribute to German power . maybe by making a strong French defense then it will impact the Operation Barbarossa

[panzers]

I played the Germans as very easy and the Russians as very hard. I pretty much slaughtered them the first time around, now I am the one being slaughtered. I guess it depends on how much armor the Russians put up. Last game, they came up with 8, this time around they came up with 11 and I got pretty much surrounded. I guess it depends on the AI